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But most people whould say you can spot a chav from their appearance which makes the whole thing fucking stupid.
It's that easy is it.
When you have people telling you from a very young age that you're scum, a chav, and from the dregs of society, when you've had a poor education and when ypu've really not been given the same opertunities in life how easy do you think it is to motivate yourself.
Call somebody scum often enough for long enough and they'll start to believe it.
Why do children from under class famillies generally stay woking class their whole life, where as middle class kids go on to be more successful. Think about it.
I thought you said chavs were middle class, now your saying they're unemplyed and on the dole. Which is it?
How are 'chavs' allowed to get away with stealing or being unemployed, any more than you woudl be?
Read these quotes...
A quick look back says I posted that on 30-10-2004 at 03:20 AM
Looks like I'd just come in off the booze when I'd posted that, but I wouldn't know seeing as it was two whole years ago.
I'm not really getting your point anyway?
Well, as you said - the word is many things. This is what I use it for.
I know motivation is hard - but when it comes to the choice of living off the dole with nothing to do all day, or getting a job - I know which I'd rather do.
Some make little effort to seek a job. They make no effort to contribue a thing - they don't/didn't even attend school. If I were a tory I'd say how come children from even these so-called "respectable" families turn out this way?
The job opens up all sorts of things to me. More money, a better qaulity of life. Even with little to no qaulifications it is possible to get a job. I know someone who was going to fail his GCSE's, so he went off and did an apprenticeship instead. He's got a job now.
Because of the system. It is designed to benefit only those at the top, that is the idea. They stay in power - the rest stay under thier control. This is still no excuse for the wanton vandalism, theft of luxury commodities, and assualting of innocent citizens. By both working and middle class people reffered to as "chavs".
I mean, how do some chavs afford thier stupid jewelry and designer clothing if so poor? You see groups - some wearing old, tatty clothes - others with the latest nike, or reebok, and some bling on show. Cunts. After dadd drops them off outside Tesco or McD's from his Merc or Beemer.
I didn't say that, if you look again - you get Chavs from all sectors. Middle class ones, working class ones - same with any social group. Chavs appear united by one thing, thier goal of vandalising stuff, stealing, and beating up some innocent on the way home from the pub, possibly causing his death.
Because the government makes no actuall effort to tackle the problem? They don't go about forcing them to get on with life... get a job, a purpose in life... or we cut your benefits. Perhaps offer them some sort of incentive? Maybe an education... but half the time they wouldn't be willing to take it.
I don't understand that... even when offered help, sometimes these people don't take it... they'd rather fester through life.
My point is that a whole lot of people consider appearance and class a very improtant attribute in a the stereotypical chav. Yet in this thread both you and Gerbil have argued otherwise.
If somebody's kickin in the bus shelter they're vandals, nothing more.
Precisley.
I know Working Class people who dress live the Chav steryotype, but are alright people.
Ok, one was arrested in Berlin with blood alcohol of 3.92, but hey... we were all getting very drunk. I mean, fuck me, it was impressive!
Which you could class as being a troublemaker which would roughly be the same as a ned.
Same as smasghing glass bottles all oer the pavement/road, or trying to break into peoples cars or whatever.
I'm not saying they're the dregs of society or even that it's their own fault, but they're still collectively classed as neds.
Fuck, half of them thrive on it and set up NEDZ ROOL type websites with loads of photos of the crew.
I don't have any issue at all with bored kids on the street (not what I'd class as neds), but I've got a problem with people who kick the fuck out of bus shelters or throw stones at old people's dogs.
Which is one of the reasons it's why it's such a fucking stupid and pointless label.
You've been in that position then?
You said it yourself, because of the system and because of the attitudes in other parts of society. Much of the reason these people exist is because from the day they're born they have less opertunitities. However, instead of actually thinking about doing something constructive to resolve this problem most people would rather contribute to it, by looking down their noses, reffering to them as the dregs of society and and genreally taking the piss. Real helpful that.
I thought appearance had nothing to do with it?
Of course they would. They love having nothing, and getting abuse from the almost every other part of society. :rolleyes: How ridiculous.
The activities you describe are why I class them as the dregs of society: I don't mean by this, they are working class - I mean they are the dregs because they are worthless fuckers. What good do they do for the world?
Then why attach another label such as ned or chav - a label that encurages people to judge poeple on appearance and class.
Can't you see how pointless and destructive the stereotype is. That goes for 'Emo's' and 'Goths' too
Because, it appears to be the job of the media to do this? The spread it... and thats how it gets into peoples vocabulary.
I was fucking confused when I first begand hearing words like "emo" and "chav" and "goth" (I thought people were on about goths as in, medievil times at first). Now they seem to be everyday words.
I guess it is an easy way for people to classify groups, although it leads to people getting mis-labelled. I use "chav" how I have seen it used, imho - by the media to classify groups of deliquents who vandlaise shit and steal and assault people.
Criminal youths, in other words. Who get ASBO's when they should be jailed.
Don't agree with that at all.
Without trying to sound wanky about it, you can't really just dismiss people (be it individuals or a group) as worthless fuckers. Sure, they aren't doing fuck all good to the world by kicking the fuck out of bus shelters, but you could argue that by just dismissing them like that then you're saying they won't amount to anything and they're just scum.
That aint gonna help them to try and get a job or an education, they're just gonna keep doing what they're doing, and probably get a lot worse.
They're acting like scumbags, but that doesn't mean they should just be dismissed as scumbags.
The media didn't create it, they have certainly aided in it's use however.
It is easy (I used to do it myself) but it's destructive and you're only helping it to continue. If you look at media such as chavscum quite nasty and aimed at the underclass.
This place should be proof that sterotypes like that can be absolute bollocks. We have all sorts of people here getting on with each other and chatting, when in the outside world they would probably have just ignored each other based on a silly judgment on the way they dress or the music they listened to.
I don't see many benifits of locking up youth offenders to be honest. Not if you really knew what prisons and detention centres are like. They're schools for criminal behaviour.
They have the ability to be helped. I didn't say that. In thier current state, thought, they are worthless.
A car is worthless when broken, say, with a cracked block. A new block though, and it is entirley useful. This is much the same situation. It just takes work.
However, without any real incentive, these people ain't going to do shit.
:yes: :thumb:
And calling them the worthless dregs of society helps them how.
The fact that there are people who live shitty lives, who have a poor education and lack the same opertunities as others shows a lot about our society. It's as much our responsibility to help them as it is theirs surely?
Ned is just another word for a hooligan, troublemaker,yob etc.
And it's not just teenagers I'm on about, I know of graduates and managers who sing bigoted and racist football songs at the weekend, and abuse other people when they're out getting drunk - I'd say that counts as neddy behaviour too.
ETA - There's an old lady who lives downstairs from me, and I think she probably sees me as a bit of a ned because I fell down the stairs drunk one weekend and made a racket. I'll be getting the ASBO any day now I bet :nervous:
How?
You can't be an Emo or a Goth by accident, Emo's and Goth's go out of their way to be part of the Emo and Goth scene.
It's a phase that they grow out of once they've had their little bit of attention.
You can't compare it to a kid getting stereotyped as a scumbag just because he's from a rough as fuck area and his family haven't got much money.
But the point I've been making is that there's a very large proportion of people who'd consider a somebody a chav or ned simply because of their appearance or social background. Just look at Chavscum or Kiezos comments.
You can when you're talking about judging people on appearances. He wears all balckj so he must cut himself whilst that geezer over there is waring trackies so he must be a chav.
Go on Chavscum on look at the galleries, all the 'chavs' look the same yet none of them are engaing in criminal behavior. How do we know their chavs, if not by appearance?
And you got to try to help them, get beaten up, sworn at, and shit thrown at you.
The only people who can help them are the Government right now, by either convincing them to work, or forcing them too and hoping they realise its the right thing to do.
Hell, they throw bricks and bottles at police cars. You must surley realise part of it is thier own fault - todays terrible culture says that achieving in exams and through life is "uncool". I wish myself, I'd paid more attention through school. Worked harder.
These people, even if average joe tried to help, would spit back in thier face, 'cos thier well 'ard, bruv. Don't need no job, innit, i's got dole. They need a proper education, proper skills for life, and alot of work. And most likley, we need a government program that will force them into it. We also need to address the situation that got them thier in the first place, and provide equal education for all. Less social pressures, and remove alot of the class divide. All education facilities should be state run, and have mixed social classes. This will provide a unifying force for these folk.
And somehow, we need rid of the emo/chav/goth divide.
Your missing the point. Chav bashing and stereotyping is stupid and destructive. That's what I'm saying.
I'm tired. Good night.
Night. I am quite tired too.
Admitadley slagging off won't help - but its what we do. We complain about what we don't like, compliment what we do.
Moaning about Tony doesn't get the sod out of power.
Every single one, even those from rich family's, do not bother to work but take a 'fuck it i'll just get benefits innit mate' mantra.
Given, not all chavs are tossers, i've got a few chavvy mates myself but its more the attitude that gets me and the general lack of respect for anyone and anything.
People are people, no matter what their background or subculture they come from. I'm sure there are plenty of Chavs out there that are pieces of trash, just as there are white collar office workers who are assholes.
There have been plenty of times that my sister has brought her Chav friends around my house and I hate every last one of them. Their all a bunch of druggy, ignorant, pieces of garbage. But that doesn't imply that all Chavs act like morons.
Personaly, I don't care for the subculture, I don't like the music, don't like the attitude. But it isn't worth looking down our noses at the group as a whole because some of them have a reputation for acting like shits.
Couple of weeks ago there was an old lady who tripped over a crack in the sidewalk on campus, she did a full on sprawl onto the concrete. First people that came over to help her were myself and some Chav kid. Bunch of other people just watched while a skinhead and a Chav were to two to go and help. I mention it because (admittedly) I had a low opinion of the Chav guy until I saw him help out the old lady. Times like that help to remind people that association with subculture don't necessarily determine personality.
It isn't being anti-working-class to attack these scrounging layabouts, because none of them would know a job if it stabbed them in the back. These people are the dregs of society, the underclass, the unsaveables. They fight and smoke and fight some more because they are too fucking stupid to know how to do anything else. Just as a crab lashes out at everything around it, so does a charver; neither have the mental capacity to do anything else.
You can tell charvers; they always have the bags and the sallow skin of the heroin addict, the alcoholic, the terminally stupid. They always stink. Every first word is fuck, every second is cunt, they make me sound clean-mouthed. Smoking on the bus, listening to shitty music on their stolen mobiles, and vandalism are all their tiny minds can manage to do. Funnily enough they do always live on sink estates and do always wear tracksuits. They don't serve any purpose in society, and if they all died tomorrow I'd say life for the rest of us would be greatly improved.
The problem is that every chav wears a tracksuit and swears and is violent, but not every tracksuit-wearing person is a swearing violent braindead thug. But its easy to see why people stereotype tracksuit-wearing burberry people when all the people causing shit in their neighbourhood are clad in burberry and tracksuits.
Because 'working class' implies that they are actually working. Which we all know is bollocks.
Me too! And I was going to come and reply with "A Burberry lawnmower *jazz hands*", only to find that everyone's having quite the sensible discussion about society and prejudice.
Way to piss on my bonfire, sensible people