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Veils and Limbo

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am fairly sure that Straw was not saying he wouldn't talk to someone if they didn't take their veil off and it is fairly obvious that it would be even less comfortable not even being in the same room, the whole point was about the worth of face to face debate......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I dont get why you refuse to accept how important it is for some people.

    I haven't refused to accept anything, rather the opposite is tru. I question why one person's expression of speech is more important than another's and you still haven't answered that question.

    By the way, as an aside, you are actually reinforcing my comment about non verbal communication. The words I have used, and Jack Starw's words quoted in the OP, are clear. Yet you have either misread them or misunderstood them. Now, wouldn't it be clearer if we have this discussion face-to-face?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    would i have to take my snood off?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Erm... don't the women involved have a problem with being uncovered?

    NQA had it spot on when he talked about a clash of liberties.

    no..its thier choice. its a peice of clothing just like everyone else wears clothes.
    Again, why? Why does someone's right to express their religion come before someone else's right to express an opinion - isn't religious expression just another form of free speech?

    it doesnt. hes got a right to ask women to remove thier veils and they have a right to refuse. thats it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You know Salmon Rushdie has waded in to the this argument along with a long list of other well conected or high profile moderate Muslims saying Jack Straw is right to open the debate at last and leaving such debates as taboo just because it is to do with a minority is wrong and foolish political correctness. But then again Rushdie did once have a death sentence against him and had to have SAS body guards at one time.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bullseye wrote:
    But then again Rushdie did once have a death sentence against him and had to have SAS body guards at one time.
    why?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because he wrote those Satanic Verses or what ever it was called. He had a Jihad against him by the Islamic central council and basically he came to the UK to be protected. Thats what you get for saying Allah fucked your mum though...eh?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    What are you trying to say?
    Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for The Satanic Verses (novel in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings.

    Start the The Satanic Verses (novel article or add a request for it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the link is missing a bracket - I'm sure scc was responding to the question about the fatwah

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Verses
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bullseye wrote:
    basically he came to the UK to be protected. Thats what you get for saying Allah fucked your mum though...eh?

    He was already in the UK. He went to school/university here...

    The backward and violent behaviour of many Muslims in their reaction to the book was disgusting and incompatible with any civilised society.
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    **helen****helen** Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
    Hi, just wanted to let you know that today's poll on the main homepage relates to this issue, so have a look and vote now if you haven't already.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The backward and violent behaviour of many Muslims in their reaction to the book was disgusting and incompatible with any civilised society.

    Oh yeah, we in Bradford had riots for about a week after that book was published.

    I'm more inclined to listen to someone like Rushdie than I am the fascists who run the Muslim Council of Britain (an organisation that tried to justify the fatwah, after all).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **Helen** wrote:
    Hi, just wanted to let you know that today's poll on the main homepage relates to this issue, so have a look and vote now if you haven't already.
    Aren't 1 and 4 saying the same thing?
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    **helen****helen** Deactivated Posts: 9,235 Supreme Poster
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Aren't 1 and 4 saying the same thing?

    To a degree but not exactly. With polls, I think it's often the case that you could agree with more than one thing. I'll try and explain without confusing you!

    So you could think: yes, I think it should be their choice, but if they're forced then that's wrong. However, that's too long for one option, so the idea is to see which option you feel most strongly about. Based on the idea that someone agrees with the above they would need to make the decision: Do I feel more strongly that women should be able to make the choice themselves, or is the issue that some women may be forced to wear one more important?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Classroom assistant sacked for wearing veil in class.

    Good. I hope she loses, and she should have to pay back every single penny of legal aid she has received for this stupid lawsuit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Classroom assistant sacked for wearing veil in class.

    Good. I hope she loses, and she should have to pay back every single penny of legal aid she has received for this stupid lawsuit.


    :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
    I agree!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well youd think it wouldnt matter in front of children, but I cant understand why a story about someone getting sacked would make front page news, or is it just because its about a muslim?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    or is it just because its about a muslim?

    I think you take this Muslim media vendetta thing too seriously. Lots of stupid shit makes the front pages.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well youd think it wouldnt matter in front of children, but I cant understand why a story about someone getting sacked would make front page news, or is it just because its about a muslim?

    Only because no-one but a Muslim is likely to want to wear a veil at school, and the topic is in the news anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wondered about this story. Surely she's been working at the school for a while? So either, she's been asked ages ago and removed the veil in the past, and is only now kicking up a fuss on the back of the media outrage. Or this has been an ongoing case, and the media have suddenly decided to jump on the story because it's another convenient "muslims refuse to integrate" story. I wonder which it is?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry to drag this up again but I had to share...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    children learn a lot from facial expressions

    a child can know if you`re happy, sad or angry with one look

    therefore i believe it is correct that the teacher be made to show her face
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Classroom assistant sacked for wearing veil in class.

    Good. I hope she loses, and she should have to pay back every single penny of legal aid she has received for this stupid lawsuit.

    It actually turns out she was 'victimised' - she's now got £1,100 from Kirklees Council. Easy money, wear a veil and complain. Great use of taxpayers money.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6066726.stm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Except she lost religous discrimination. I could be wrong, but it sounds like the Tribunal are sayinng the school were right to dismiss her, but the way they handled it was poor
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Littleali wrote:
    children learn a lot from facial expressions

    a child can know if you`re happy, sad or angry with one look

    therefore i believe it is correct that the teacher be made to show her face

    aaahhh...what a country we live in
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    aaahhh...what a country we live in
    please elaborate

    i cant point that post was trying to make
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    People can dress how they wish, but if they dress in such a way as to exclude themselves from society, then they can't turn around and moan that they're not included.

    In the same way that hooded chavs are excluding themselves from society? In the same way that people who wear tight jeans and converse shoes are excluding themselves from society? In the same way that people who wear all black with piercins are excluding themselves from society?

    I guess that if it was possible to have every single Muslim person attached to some sort of X Ray machine so that everyoen can see that they're not carrying anything to carry out any sort of terrorist attacks then this whole ooh Islams should do this Islams should do that rubbish would go away, cos let's face it, all this stems down is every single ignorant person just stereotypically assume that muslim=terrorist.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wondered about this story. Surely she's been working at the school for a while? So either, she's been asked ages ago and removed the veil in the past, and is only now kicking up a fuss on the back of the media outrage. Or this has been an ongoing case, and the media have suddenly decided to jump on the story because it's another convenient "muslims refuse to integrate" story. I wonder which it is?

    She never wore the veil to the interview ... I wonder why?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    crystalx2 wrote:
    I guess that if it was possible to have every single Muslim person attached to some sort of X Ray machine so that everyoen can see that they're not carrying anything to carry out any sort of terrorist attacks then this whole ooh Islams should do this Islams should do that rubbish would go away, cos let's face it, all this stems down is every single ignorant person just stereotypically assume that muslim=terrorist.

    bull poo

    its got nothin to do with thinkin someone wearing a veil is a terrorist, its about communication, being able to see who you are talking to, being able to see facial expressions
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