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That's a rather circular argument.
btw, how many prisons have you visited?
Sorry, what? How exactly did Michael Howard prove that? How has it been shown in the US?
No, you were actually resorting to insults...And well, given how bizarre your views are - your views on Jews for example I can't really take anything you say seriously.
We? You haven't given one good reason.
Anyway Michael Howard oversaw a 15% fall in crime. (Howard introduced tough mandatory sentences...)
And the relevance of that question to my original point regarding rebuilding is...?
I'm just wondering how come you're such an authority on the efficient use of space in old prisons. How many have you visited?
Thing is though dis, I can't take you seriously for pretty much the same reasons.
I can't remember what/where/when but the last time the shortage of spaces for prisoners came up it was reported that one solution would be to make better use of space in the existing ones.
Either you're blind, stupid or both. Read the thread again. The reasons I gave are better than building more prisons. Being tougher on crime has nothing to do with building more prisons.
Such as GPs, employees of Boots, Superdrug, Moss Chemists etc ? :chin:
Although as this thread is in reference to prison spaced I would have *thought* that was clear as generally GPs and people who work in pharmacys aren't in jail for supplying the drugs they do.
Wit han ever increasing number of people being imprisoned that is an irrelevant comment. The number of beds isn't based on the amount of time a prisoner is there, unless you also factor in the number of people inside.
e.g. keeping Brady inside for 80 years means that you only have to have one bed for 80 years. What would you do with the next person sent down? Especially at a time when some parties are calling for more people to be sent down.
As an aside, did you see that Connaught Barracks is due to be converted into a prison soon. In order to do so the facilities have to be improved because what is good enough for Soldiers isn't good enough for inmates.
Improved or just changed? I presume the Barracks isnt as secure as a prison should be, and I also assume they they dont have enough seperate rooms.
I was under the impression that soldiers bunked in large rooms with a big group of them (or do I just watch old war movies). I doubt you could run a prison like that.
Well prison inmates don't have any income. If you're on benefits or a low wage you also get your dental treatment completely free.
I do agree that the state of the dental services in this country is an utter disgrace, but it really is a totally seperate issue to prisons.
That's what I was thinking.
It is part of the issue that prisoners get far better treatment than a portion of law abiding society though.
To clarify on drink drivers, as I think I already did earlier in this thread:
There are some (admitedly not many) first time drink drive offenders who are in jail. I think that in these cases a long term driving ban alongside a re education program would be a better approach.
You have no idea of the health problems which prisoners have, do you?
Did you know that about 75% aren't even registered with a GP, not to mention the toll of drug/alcohol abuse. Do you understand the deprivation imapct of health (for example you are 25 times more likely to die in an accident/from poisoning if you are the child of someone who is long term unemployed...), do you understand the spiral of health conditions and crime, or the impact of mental health on crime?
It's easy to look at the basic figures and say that prisoners get better health care. What you miss is that they actually need it.
Both, but the sad fact is that living conditions are not the same because the rights of each group are different.
I'd like to think I have a vague idea, apart from anything else the thickness of prison health records give it all away quite quickly. I'm not saying that they don't need it, I am simply saying that it is an incredibly unfair system that gives those in jail better access to services than those who are law abiding.
If the people in society got some of these services provided as well as some of the prison population do we could probably make good progress towards keeping some of them away from crime and out of jail for precisely the reasons you make.
But don't quite a few of them bring it on themseleves and only do it because they hate prison that much?
They don't though.
What are you talking about? How many jails have you visited? What makes you such an expert on the criminal justice system?
http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/database/stats/keystats3.html
http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/subsection.asp?id=317
In prison they don't have access to a GP every day, nor to a dentist. In each case they have to wait for them to visit. They can only attend hospital when they guards can take them, clinical need is not as relevant (barring life threatening cases). Most prison health is provided by nurses - as a first point of call. For the "free" population, the it's a doctor.
Spending on Prison Health in minimal in comparison to the £1500 per person spent outside.
It isn't that those services don't exist in the outside world, it's that the section of population we are talking about don't access them.