Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.

Simply unbelievable

I know the immense majority of people here and elsewhere already know Bush and his government are a bunch of corrupt scumbags and war criminals, but I'd like to ask to the one or two individuals who still think otherwise to give me their thoughts on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ADlZViASo

Not only torturers and murderers, but also undemocratic corrupt cowardly fucks.

The US is on a slippery slop towards a Nazi state. It is of paramount importance for America and indeed the world that this bunch of fascist cunts are removed from power and never let anywhere near a seat of power again.

The Republican Party & Bush Administration= enemy of the human race.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you just give me the jist? I'm at work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What a fucking piece of shit that man truely is.

    I mean Bush, not you Aladdin :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you just give me the jist? I'm at work.

    Basically, all detainees from 9/11 onwards are subject to the Geneva Convention, so they're not allowed to be tortured, abused etc and should be treated in an humane way. Bush and his cronies are trying to push through a piece oe legislation that will effectively prevent him or his government from being tried/convited of any war crimes/contraventions of the G.C. DATING BACK TO Sept 11th 2001.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jesus christ, that IS unbelievable, who the fuck do these people think they are?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What pisses me off, is that the media - certainly over here - just don't seem to give a fuck.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What pisses me off, is that the media - certainly over here - just don't seem to give a fuck.

    I was just thinking the exact same thing after I watched it! I haven't even seen a mention of it on the news - How can that be???
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was just thinking the exact same thing after I watched it! I haven't even seen a mention of it on the news - How can that be???
    Well it's that liberal bias in the media, obviously. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sad, but true even to our own country... We tried to get it put through the House of Lords to use information obtained by torture (unless I'm mistaken).

    The thing is that torture doesn't provide evidence... I mean reliable evidence and to me, it's more a weapon of control by fear than of functional use.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdfin is obessed with Bush and wars. Just like I am obsessed with asylum seekers and muslims.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Aladdfin is obessed with Bush and wars.

    I'm glad he is. If it wasn't for someone like him, i doubt i'd of heard of this. I've spoken to 5 people about this today all disbelieving and surprised there's been nothing in our media.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Aladdfin is obessed with Bush and wars. Just like I am obsessed with asylum seekers and muslims.
    Do you have anything to say about the topic in hand? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Aladdfin is obessed with Bush and wars.

    Don't you care that the "most powerful man in the world" is attempting to slip through a law protecting himself from prosecution?

    Don't you consider that an abuse of power?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wow. I remember arguing about the treatment of detainees back when the Independent still had a message board. American posters were all for withholding Geneva convention rights from prisoners grabbed in Afghanistan. They didn't wear recognisable uniforms, or have a recognisable command structure... They weren't recognisably guilty of anything but being in Afghanistan, most of them. They have encouraged Arab/Muslim animosity towards the US, but that was hardly their fault.

    Tough cheese, George. The 'We're fighting a war on terror!' thing was always going to come off the skids at some point because, as I think Andy Hamilton said, an abstract noun can't surrender. You torture real people, you take the consequences.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    [B]Don't you care [/B]that the "most powerful man in the world" is attempting to slip through a law protecting himself from prosecution?

    Don't you consider that an abuse of power?

    Endemic malfeasance seems to me to be THE accepted behaviour.

    Pointing it out often results in ostracism or vitriolic attack.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    shameless! if bush & AG can make an argument for retroactive legislation in this minefield there are no bounds. america's constitutional govt must surely do the right thing and not look the other way over this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It wont pass. If there is any decency left in our government it wont pass.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Couldn't find much on the web (though I could be using crap search terms), but I did find an article by the Washington Post which seems to put a different spin on things

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/08/AR2006080801276.html
    The draft U.S. amendments to the War Crimes Act would narrow the scope of potential criminal prosecutions to 10 specific categories of illegal acts against detainees during a war, including torture, murder, rape and hostage-taking.

    Left off the list would be what the Geneva Conventions refer to as "outrages upon [the] personal dignity" of a prisoner and deliberately humiliating acts -- such as the forced nakedness, use of dog leashes and wearing of women's underwear seen at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq -- that fall short of torture.

    I'm not sure if this is the same thing or it has changed since this early August article.

    Its certainly dodgy, but it may not be the smoking gun it seems to be. perhaps if i could find any more up to date decent news stories the CNN report may seem correct, but from the info i've got it seems a little hyped.

    As an aside I assume we're all be demanding France drops presidential immunity from its constitution as well?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Couldn't find much on the web (though I could be using crap search terms), but I did find an article by the Washington Post which seems to put a different spin on things

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/08/AR2006080801276.html



    I'm not sure if this is the same thing or it has changed since this early August article.
    I should think it has, since the recent publication of 'interrogation techniques' the CIA wanted (and succeeded in having) approved included acts of torture in all but name.
    Its certainly dodgy, but it may not be the smoking gun it seems to be. perhaps if i could find any more up to date decent news stories the CNN report may seem correct, but from the info i've got it seems a little hyped.
    I don't think it is. Putting aside the nature of the possible crimes involved, what we have here is the ultimate act of corruption: a statesman seeing to change the law to protect himself. Bush is a corrupt, lying cunt worse than Berlusconi. At least the Italian didn't (knowingly) spit on the Geneva Convention of Human Rights, broke every international and domestic law in the book and created nazi-style concentration camps to torture illegally kidnapped foreigners with impunity.

    As an aside I assume we're all be demanding France drops presidential immunity from its constitution as well?
    Irrelevant to this case I should think.

    Why do you get the feeling you are trying to justify the unjustifiable?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Aladdin is obsessed with Bush and wars.
    Well, I'm glad he is. You seem to think of President Bush as some type of God who's beyond any criticism. Rest assured that if it was a Democrat president trying to do this, you, Luke, would be screaming your head off at the news. You'd be demanding this lot be removed. You'd be demanding impeachment proceedings. But no, because we're talking about Bush and utterly bonkers extreme Right-wing nutters, it's alright. I wonder why?
    Just like I am obsessed with asylum seekers and muslims.
    I'm sure you were outraged enough this morning when you discovered in the Daily Mail that there are 500,000 people working illegally in this country. And even more outraged when you read the report and saw there was no actual basis for this claim. But your unhealthy paranoia about immigrants can wait for another day.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No US soldier is ever going to get tried for war crime in the Hague anyway, even if they had signed up to the court (which of course they havent).

    The only reason people end up there is because their local government doesnt do ANYTHING.

    Take us for example, we could give the soldier here who has admited it a slap on the wrist and a fine and he would never be allowed to be taken to the Hague because we had technically done something about the offence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I should think it has, since the recent publication of 'interrogation techniques' the CIA wanted (and succeeded in having) approved included acts of torture in all but name.

    Possibly, but I don't thing such things as sleep deprivation are torture.


    I
    don't think it is. Putting aside the nature of the possible crimes involved, what we have here is the ultimate act of corruption: a statesman seeing to change the law to protect himself. Bush is a corrupt, lying cunt worse than Berlusconi. At least the Italian didn't (knowingly) spit on the Geneva Convention of Human Rights, broke every international and domestic law in the book and created nazi-style concentration camps to torture illegally kidnapped foreigners with impunity.

    Possibly I'd agree. But then I'm not sure as I lack decent unpartisan information
    Irrelevant to this case I should think.

    No very relevant. if Presidential immunity is a bad thing its a bad thing for Chirac as well.
    Why do you get the feeling you are trying to justify the unjustifiable

    In this case I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm pointing out that perhaps the diatribe on CNN should be treated with as much caution as a diatribe on Fox. If people can produce better sources I'm more than willing to either justify Bush or say he's wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Bush is a corrupt, lying cunt worse than Berlusconi.

    I actually quite like the guy and was particularly pleased to see Lady Thatcher as guest of honour to Cheney conveying her support. :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Possibly, but I don't thing such things as sleep deprivation are torture.
    Sleep depravation, if done for considerable amounts of time, can be an extremely distressing experience. As is being repeteadly smacked in the face, even with an open hand. As is being chucked into a freezer.

    The CIA is suggesting that because none of those things cause permanent or serious damage, it does not classify as toture.

    Which if of course a load of rubbish. The same could be applied to many other things, from mock executions to the application of electricity to genitalia.
    No very relevant. if Presidential immunity is a bad thing its a bad thing for Chirac as well.
    I agree it's a rotten thing and that no statesman should be above the law. But the key point here is an incumbent trying to change the law to protect himself. That's a lot more wrong than someone being the President of a nation where such law already existed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I actually quite like the guy and was particularly pleased to see Lady Thatcher as guest of honour to Cheney conveying her support. :D
    What do you think of this move though? Surely and despite your apparent support for Bush you must see this as deeply wrong?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    What do you think of this move though? Surely and despite your apparent support for Bush you must see this as deeply wrong?

    :lol: Jack Cafferty, Bill O'Reilly - they are the equivalent of talk radio or tabloid newspaper columnists here. Was there anything in the New York Times? (I haven't looked). Or on an actual CNN news report - not a TV op-ed report?

    Tbh I'm no cheerleader for Bush, I'd like McCain to get it next time and I think Clinton was great...I'm more just avidly atlanticist. Bush isn't great but he's certainly not the devil that the Hugo Chavez school of thought portrays him to be.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    It wont pass. If there is any decency left in our government it wont pass.

    Thats one big hope you have thier, looking at your Government fella!

    Why the fuck don't you Americans take a stand? I thought you'd all really pissed after what Bush has been doing.

    Force the bastard out of power guys! Force an early election. You people still have the power... do it WHILE you still have that power.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Thats one big hope you have thier, looking at your Government fella!
    I know it. It seems that (with some exceptional cases of course) the various US governments consistently try to destroy our country and the principles it stands for. Thankfully federalism always leaves pockets of political opposition. We've made it through some dark times before, I'm confident we'll make it through this one as well.
    Why the fuck don't you Americans take a stand? I thought you'd all really pissed after what Bush has been doing.
    Beats me. There is a general feeling of apathy among people, and I don't exclude myself from that statement. Sometimes I'm amazed and angered by my own indifference. Frankly (personal opinion of course, I don't have statistics to back it up at the moment) I believe the apathy stems from the inaccessibility of our federal government. We can vote, but generally the politicians share common interests which they hold closer than the good of the country. We can stage protests, but they commonly fall on def ears; I mean for gods sake, you can get a federal grant to stage a rally, just to give the impression that democracy is still alive and thriving. People know that the government isn't listening and so they get frustrated and lose interest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We can stage protests, but they commonly fall on def ears; I mean for gods sake, you can get a federal grant to stage a rally, just to give the impression that democracy is still alive and thriving. People know that the government isn't listening and so they get frustrated and lose interest.

    Exactly, marching or protest actually takes a lot of faith, faith that it will make some difference and that those in power still actually care about what you have to say.
Sign In or Register to comment.