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True. But a bearded man outside a London mosque saying, "We wholeheartedly accept the Pope's apology and oppose any violence perpetrated by Muslims as a result of his comments." doesn't look as good as people in Pakistan burning an effigy of the pope on the 9 0'clock news.
What's being an ex-member of the Hitler Youth got to do with it? He was a conscript from an anti-Nazi family. His dad was sacked from the police for his anti-Nazi views and was lucky to avoid a concentration camp. Given that the Nazi's were hanging deserters from lampost it would have taken more moral courage than most people possess to not serve and risk not only your own death, but those of your family.
I'm not a great fan of the papacy, but criticism of him ought to be valid, not based on smears and innuendos
Can people get a grip before they go running their mouths off...if that happened none of this mess with the Pope would have happened, would it.
They always have something to moan about..... "ooh you attacked our faith, your a bad boy". Turn it over ffs.
The Pope didn't use that quote to express his own opinion, it was part of a lecture, aimed to educate by looking at different opinions and attitudes through time.
Those who think he shouldn't have said it, should we never teach or discuss with direct quotes events from history?
However if we get past that erroneous first sentence, the main part of the letter still stands very true. For the head of the Catholic Church, quote or not quote, to speak about Islam's apparent violent ways is rather like Fred West lecturing Stan Collymore about woman abuse.
But Catholicism tends to have put is violent tendencies behind it, the Pope hasn't called for a crusade for a while. Any Catholics who are calling for the violent conversion of other faiths tend to be on an extreme fringe, which may also be true for Muslims as well, but the extreme fringe is larger.
The letter writer also misses the point about the sack of Byzantium by Christian crusaders. They weren't sacking it because they were Christian, it wasn't an attempt to convert an orthodix city to Catholicism, but a purely political deicison (or a break down in discipline after provocations by Byzantium traders depending on which version you accept). The Turkish sack of Byzantium was motivated by the belief that Islam (at the time) should be spread by the sword.
The spread of Islam by the sword wasn't copying the Crusades. Jerusalem was Roman/Byzantium until conquered by the Muslims in 638. If the Muslims hadn't conquered it it would still have been orthodox Christian and there in 1095 there would have been no need for Pope Urban to call a Crusade.
They are as bad as each other, and whereas the number of Muslims extremists who advocate violence is higher than the number of their Christian counterparts, they are still a very small minority not representative of the 1bn Muslims across the world, most of whom couldn't give a shit by the looks of it.
The Pope is watched by Billions around the world, so he should have known better then to step on so many toes with his words and yes being a German of his age and talking about others being evil to a German audience is like the pot calling the kettle black.
He had over 600 years worth of people to quote and do you really think he picked the best preson in the history of the entire world to quote from? And the right set of words?
At least people like Mel Gibson are making a better attempt to correct their mistakes, and at least he can claim he was drunk at the time when he slagged off Jews whilst being arrested recently.
What exactly is the lesson the Pope taught everyone with his well choosen quote?
It was a quote as part of a lecture, looking at the relations between religions over time. I think it shows quite well how the emperor in question saw muslims and their prophets at the time, don't you?
By that do you mean that no German of his generation can ever discuss evil behaviour by anyone else? Just because the leader of their nation did wrong, means that they are all evil? Would that make all Brits evil for what Tony Blair has had a hand in in Iraq. Before I get lept on I realise that is nothing like the scale of WW2 but for the victims there is very little difference.
The pope was lecturing at a university, you know, education, for people mature enough to listen to the whole story, engage brain and think. It's not his problems journos in the back row decided to pick something out of context and stir trouble. Why shouldn't he give a good lecture with relevant references, just because he's the Pope? He was an academic for many years and it would be a waste to stop him teaching.
So as long as you're drunk when you make outright insulting antisemitic comments it's all alright then? I love your little world I really do. Mel Gibson was making his own comments, not referencing something that wasn't his opinion in a lecture.
It's not out of context if you read the entire translation first and then make up your own mind.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_09_06_pope.pdf
i dont believe the new testament(jesus renounces most of the old testament) says jesus killed over 700 non believers and that you should charge them extra tax to effectively force them to convert, the koran says that.....
By contrast, Islam is seen as this extreme, fanatical, almost cult like religion that breeds hate to all non-Islamists. It is seen a sresponsible for all the terrorism in the world and the abuse and subjugation of women.
Neither is 100% accurate of course, just like not all Protestants are sexually repressed puritanical zealots.
All in all, Religion is just lame, In My Opinion!
But I think what angers me the most is the attitude of lazy people who having the means to inform themselves better don't but decide they know enough to start brandishing out opinions based on what the cover of the newspaper says (and acting like they are experts on the matter).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5362052.stm
Again Muslim extremists are allowed to spout anything they like. When is this stupid soft pathetic government going to lock these pigs up? Or throw them to a land where they will be happy?
As if we can say what we like about everything but if we say something about Muslims which they may disagree with, we are threatened. I'll say it again: Islam is the religion of peace? Yeah sure. :rolleyes: (Now please don't start with the usual comments of how racist I am. I will condemn Islam when ever I like, I am using my freedom of speech.):banghead:
Which one is it?
This is only the view of a small minority of muslims in the UK. Many of them may not agree with all these wars and what not, but that doesnt mean they want to kill everyone who has anything to do with it.