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Since nobody else seems to care...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Today is a global day of action for Sudan.

It's a shame those who repeatedly (and falsely) accuse Israel of genocide never bring up Sudan...Some would say their priorities are guided by criticising Jews where possible although I'd rather simply see them as misguided.

Anyhow Sudan will prove yet another example of what the UN's true speciality is - inaction. Praying is sadly preferable to holding any faith in UN bureaucrats. It's an awful situation.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Today is a global day of action for Sudan.

    It's a shame those who repeatedly (and falsely) accuse Israel of genocide never bring up Sudan...Some would say their priorities are guided by criticising Jews where possible although I'd rather simply see them as misguided.

    Anyhow Sudan will prove yet another example of what the UN's true speciality is - inaction. Praying is sadly preferable to holding any faith in UN bureaucrats. It's an awful situation.

    apparently TB said today Sudan is top of his agenda.........i think what he means is 'oh great something i can use to deflect attention from what a shambles my party has become'.......your not wrong though, the UN is a bad joke. i don't see america taking unilateral action to protect the sudanese either though, lol i think i'd have a stroke if that ever happened. politics ay.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Today is a global day of action for Sudan.

    It's a shame those who repeatedly (and falsely) accuse Israel of genocide never bring up Sudan...Some would say their priorities are guided by criticising Jews where possible although I'd rather simply see them as misguided.

    Anyhow Sudan will prove yet another example of what the UN's true speciality is - inaction. Praying is sadly preferable to holding any faith in UN bureaucrats. It's an awful situation.

    That's right dis, I'm a raging Jew hater.

    *Sieg Heil* :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The reason why Israel gets so much criticism dis is because it also gets huge amounts of support from the UK and the US. What's going on in Sudan gets rightly criticised by everyone, but lots of people actively defend the right of Israel to oppress, murder and starve people. That's the difference dis.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    The reason why Israel gets so much criticism dis is because it also gets huge amounts of support from the UK and the US..

    Yep, I agree. because Israel is supported by the US and UK people criticise it a lot more than more godawful dictatorships.
    What's going on in Sudan gets rightly criticised by everyone, but lots of people actively defend the right of Israel to oppress, murder and starve people. That's the difference dis

    The death rates are the difference.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Yep, I agree. because Israel is supported by the US and UK people criticise it a lot more than more godawful dictatorships.
    Not exactly. The actual reasons are that

    a) Israel is actually presented as 'vibrant democracy' and a regime that deserves support and praise rather than the Apartheid torturing murdering aggressive pariah state it is

    b) The US and the UK see themselves as world policemen and fit to take direct acton without permission against *some* of those those regimes , champions of freedom and human rights as they are- while at the same time ignoring the excesses of Israel and actually praising that particular nasty regime in the biggest exercise of double standards the world has ever seen.

    Are there countries that have killed more people than Israel? Yes of course. Is there any country in human history that has been allowed to commit the atrocities Israel has commited without as much as a murmur of protest from other nations? No, never.

    And by the way Disillusioned, congratulations on instantly deraling what would have been a very good thread on Suddan by your failure to resist from making another snide comment about those who dare criticise your favourite rogue regime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Yep, I agree. because Israel is supported by the US and UK people criticise it a lot more than more godawful dictatorships.

    That's not quite what I said and you know it. What I said was - things like Sudan are roundly condemned by everyone. Some people however support the right of Israel to attempt to starve the Palestinian population into submission.
    NQA wrote:
    The death rates are the difference.

    Isn't imprisoning 1.5 million people and attempting to starve them, depriving them of power, clean water, fish for food, harassing them and shooting them bad enough for you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the UK and US are meant to be mediators yet project such a pro-isreali stance that its hippocritical of 'mediators'
    too tired to rant
    but you know what mean!
    PS and everything aladin said
    PS and the fact they think they can build a big old wall in someone elses country
    NB Must nap
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't imprisoning 1.5 million people and attempting to starve them, depriving them of power, clean water, fish for food, harassing them and shooting them bad enough for you

    No I think its pretty bad, and I've always been clear on that. As I'm against suicide bombings, attempts to destroy the Israeli state etc.

    But given that Sudan has the same apart from imprison (and an interesting use for the word imprison), plus around 200,000 dead, 2 million in much worse refugee camps than in the Middle East and rape used as a weapon of war I'd say it was much, much worse.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3900777.stm

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/jan-june04/refugees_05-13.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5347988.stm

    Now this doesn't mean you shouldn't criticise Israel and other players in the Middle East, but its dishonest to claim what's going on in the Middle east is worse.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No one's claimed it is worse. :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    use of the word "imprison"
    'Gaza is a jail. Nobody is allowed to leave. We are all starving now'
    By Patrick Cockburn in Gaza
    Published: 08 September 2006

    Gaza is dying. The Israeli siege of the Palestinian enclave is so tight that its people are on the edge of starvation. Here on the shores of the Mediterranean a great tragedy is taking place that is being ignored because the world's attention has been diverted by wars in Lebanon and Iraq.

    A whole society is being destroyed. There are 1.5 million Palestinians imprisoned in the most heavily populated area in the world. Israel has stopped all trade. It has even forbidden fishermen to go far from the shore so they wade into the surf to try vainly to catch fish with hand-thrown nets.

    http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1372026.ece
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:

    So you and Patrick Coburn agree on the same terminology... I'm not sure that actually says anything
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    No one's claimed it is worse. :confused:

    So why concentrate on it? And whilst there is criticism of what's going on in Darfur its no way of the same level of what's going on in the Middle East.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The media and the politicians are to blame. They are the ones who have the power to keep items on the agenda. And they are the ones who ultimately do just that with certain items.

    It is for the same reason that the killing of 3,000 American civlians 5 years ago continues to receive dozens of times more attention, airtime and newspaper column inches than the deaths of any other civilians from Bosnia to to indeed Sudan.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    So you and Patrick Coburn agree on the same terminology... I'm not sure that actually says anything

    A reporter who has spent time there isn't saying anything? Errmmm...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    So why concentrate on it?

    I'm pointing out the hypocrisy involved, especially dis's hypocrisy.
    NQA wrote:
    And whilst there is criticism of what's going on in Darfur its no way of the same level of what's going on in the Middle East.

    I already gave my thoughts on that - Israel actually gets away with a lot more than any other country because it has support from the US and the UK. That's why people are vocal about it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the big reason everyone seems reluctant to do anything about Sudan is not only isnt there anything there we want, but what would we do if we actually did anything?

    Sanction them in the UN? No, the Chinese wouldnt let us.

    Go in by ourselves? Not only do we not have enough troops but it will be seen as another invasion of Muslims and we'd end up in a never ending war.

    Support the AU troops? Well yes, we should and are doing this, but its as good as useless because there's only about 5000 of them.

    So, what do we do other than shake our heads and accept its all terrible.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Immediate reform of the UN and removal of the right of veto. That way we can quickly authorise direct action when and where it's needed without political interference.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Immediate reform of the UN and removal of the right of veto. That way we can quickly authorise direct action when and where it's needed without political interference.

    Until that happens (my bet is on the earth finishing before then) what's your idea?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As much political and diplomatic pressure as possible by those countries that claim to care about the situation. A lot more could be done in that department IMO.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No political pressure by any nation on another nation will make the slightest bit of difference. They shall simply say they care deeply and want to make a difference but cannot and that will be that.

    The UN will never be reformed so China will always have their VETO to use in relation to situations with their "friends" they sell weapons to in Africa as is the same with America and the UK selling weapons to Isreal.

    What can be done? Nothing! Well, thats not true, asking the other African Nations to supply overwhelming and heavily armed (Armed by the UN, USA, UK, France, Anyone with weapons will do) troops to go on and impose martial law and break up the fighting, end the genocide, ensure the people are fed and protected and the dictators and military personal responsible for the attrocities are all put to death quickly.

    Not going to happen, but thats life...it seems!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, I should have added that unilateral action by one or more nations would be justified if it were to prevent a genocide. That's about the only situation in which acting without the UN's consent might be justified.
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