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9/11, five years on, time to re-think, adjust?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A most significant statistic has just come up:

    More Americans have now been killed in Iraq than in 9/11

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20060912/cm_huffpost/029234


    And yet, funny how we are constantly inundated with 9/11 reminders and apparent suggestions that it was the most appalling tragedy man has endured while at the same time the US government and right wing media play down the number of those killed in the Iraq war.

    You have to wonder how there can be even a single person in the entire world, let alone a few million, who still thinks Bush is not a useless utter cunt.
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    smitherzsmitherz Posts: 968 Part of The Mix Family
    Sorry i have not read all of this thread so i don't know if this has been posted, but for anyone who is interested watch this Alex jones video. Its just under 2hours but i think alot of people will find it interesting

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7048572757566726569&q=alex+jones+terror+storm
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And I assume that the attack on the US Embassy in Syria the other day was an attack on Syria too, because a few Syrians died?

    It was an attack on Syria, or if not Syria most definitely the Syrian regime. Syria is surprisingly secular; any attack by extremist Muslims with a fundamentalist religious agenda can fairly be interpreted as an attack on that regime. (Hence why the Syrians responded with such vigour).
    And the "all civilised people everywhere" argument is just a phrase used by Bush to try and get everyone to join him in his revenge attacks. It's frankly bullshit.

    All decent people were offended and disgusted by 9/11.
    9/11 targetted America, and America specifically.

    The WTC was full of multinational companies; many of those killed even worked for non-US owned companies. Of the dead scores of nationalities were represented. The WTC featured global interests and any attack on NYC, one of the most diverse cities in the world is in practice an attack extending well beyond the US.
    The London bombings targetted Britain and Britain specifically, because of their actions following 9/11.

    You talk as if the Iraq war somehow justifies British Pakistanis blowing themselves up. The simple fact is Britain, like the US was attacked on 9/11. The fanatics are committed to the destruction of the West; they wouldn't even spare France - for the sake of our future security this war that we did not seek is one we must win.

    Anybody who thinks terrorists blinded by a truly fanatical ideology are going to suddenly shelve their desire for a worldwide Islamic state if we pull out of Iraq is truly clueless.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    smitherz wrote:
    Sorry i have not read all of this thread so i don't know if this has been posted, but for anyone who is interested watch this Alex jones video. Its just under 2hours but i think alot of people will find it interesting

    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7048572757566726569&q=alex+jones+terror+storm

    Not this crap again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All decent people were offended and disgusted by 9/11.
    As they are with the American response to it.
    Anybody who thinks terrorists blinded by a truly fanatical ideology are going to suddenly shelve their desire for a worldwide Islamic state if we pull out of Iraq is truly clueless.
    Not nearly as blind as those who think terrorist attacks such as 7/7 in London, 9/11 in America or 11/3 in Madrid had nothing to do with the double standards of the West and its disgustingly one-sided policies in the Middle East.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was an attack on Syria, or if not Syria most definitely the Syrian regime. Syria is surprisingly secular; any attack by extremist Muslims with a fundamentalist religious agenda can fairly be interpreted as an attack on that regime. (Hence why the Syrians responded with such vigour).

    Eh? :confused: It was an attack on a US embassy, ergo it was an attack on the US. To assert otherwise is bizarre.
    All decent people were offended and disgusted by 9/11.

    True. Just as all decent people are offended and disgusted by Israel's attack on Lebanon and by their actions in Gaza.
    The WTC was full of multinational companies; many of those killed even worked for non-US owned companies. Of the dead scores of nationalities were represented. The WTC featured global interests and any attack on NYC, one of the most diverse cities in the world is in practice an attack extending well beyond the US.

    It was an attack on (a) the US and (b) what are perceived to be the symbols of western decadence
    You talk as if the Iraq war somehow justifies British Pakistanis blowing themselves up.

    Errr...no he isn't.
    The simple fact is Britain, like the US was attacked on 9/11.

    Errr...no. The US was attacked on 9/11.
    The fanatics are committed to the destruction of the West; they wouldn't even spare France - for the sake of our future security this war that we did not seek is one we must win.

    Anybody who thinks terrorists blinded by a truly fanatical ideology are going to suddenly shelve their desire for a worldwide Islamic state if we pull out of Iraq is truly clueless.[/QUOTE]

    Although of course the 7/7 bombers recorded videos of themselves saying that Iraq was part of the reason for doing it. But hey, you know better, right?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    of course the 7/7 bombers recorded videos of themselves saying that Iraq was part of the reason for doing it. But hey, you know better, right?

    So terrorists should dictate British foreign policy? Our foreign policy is formulated by our democratically elected government; a significant change in direction would naturally come through the ballot box in a democracy. Those that seek to change our foreign policy based on the threats of terrorists wish to surrender a fundamental part of our democracy and further, one has to wonder where they would stop. We could for instance almost certainly markedly reduce the threat of Islamic terrorism if we adopted Sharia law, exiled Jews and flogged homosexuals but no decent person would support such backward proposals to appease the barbaric enemy craving our destruction.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Eh? :confused: It was an attack on a US embassy, ergo it was an attack on the US. To assert otherwise is bizarre.

    If the attack had been successful it would have incited instability and tensions and caused problems for the Syrian regime. Syria is a relatively secular state, it's basically a totalitarian state too and the regime keeps a very close watch on different groups. An extremist Islamic group (that presumably attacked the Embassy) is going to be hostile to the regime and such groups through their extreme religious agenda challenge the secular nature of the Syrian regime.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So terrorists should dictate British foreign policy?
    He wasn't saying that. But you are suggesting terrorists are driven by some kind of fundamentalist world domination agenda and that our actions and foreign policies have nothing to do with their actions. And that is simply not true in a great many terrorist acts, including 7/7 and 9/11.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anybody who thinks terrorists blinded by a truly fanatical ideology are going to suddenly shelve their desire for a worldwide Islamic state if we pull out of Iraq is truly clueless.
    I agree. Who stated that they would? But what would happen is that the majority of good thinking people in the Middle East (and of Middle Eastern origin in Western countries) would see their ideologies for what they are, rather than sympathising with them and even directly supporting them. America and Britain are making it very easy for moderate Muslims in these countries to turn a blind eye to horrific acts against our citizens, when they percieve America and Britain to be committing horrific acts against their own citizens. You're always going to have people with crazy ideas in the world, you can't stop that. What you can stop, is actions which push people to sympathise with crazy ideas.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree. Who stated that they would? But what would happen is that the majority of good thinking people in the Middle East (and of Middle Eastern origin in Western countries) would see their ideologies for what they are, rather than sympathising with them and even directly supporting them. America and Britain are making it very easy for moderate Muslims in these countries to turn a blind eye to horrific acts against our citizens, when they percieve America and Britain to be committing horrific acts against their own citizens. You're always going to have people with crazy ideas in the world, you can't stop that. What you can stop, is actions which push people to sympathise with crazy ideas.
    Excellent post.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So terrorists should dictate British foreign policy? Our foreign policy is formulated by our democratically elected government; a significant change in direction would naturally come through the ballot box in a democracy. Those that seek to change our foreign policy based on the threats of terrorists wish to surrender a fundamental part of our democracy and further, one has to wonder where they would stop. We could for instance almost certainly markedly reduce the threat of Islamic terrorism if we adopted Sharia law, exiled Jews and flogged homosexuals but no decent person would support such backward proposals to appease the barbaric enemy craving our destruction.


    even MI5 said before we went to iraq, that it would increase the chances of a terroist attack on britain...... they were right
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    even MI5 said before we went to iraq, that it would increase the chances of a terroist attack on britain...... they were right

    And we all know how fucking incompetent the Foreign Office are.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So terrorists should dictate British foreign policy?

    Our foreign policy should alter depending on the effect it has in the world, if that's what you mean.
    Our foreign policy is formulated by our democratically elected government; a significant change in direction would naturally come through the ballot box in a democracy.

    V recent history begs to differ with you there dis. The majority of people didn't want the war in Iraq.
    Those that seek to change our foreign policy based on the threats of terrorists wish to surrender a fundamental part of our democracy and further, one has to wonder where they would stop.

    Our foreign policy is based on threats too. Its all a matter of degree really. But tell me - where do you think we'd be with the situation in Northern Ireland today of we hadn't negotiated with Sinn Fein and the IRA?
    We could for instance almost certainly markedly reduce the threat of Islamic terrorism if we adopted Sharia law, exiled Jews and flogged homosexuals but no decent person would support such backward proposals to appease the barbaric enemy craving our destruction.

    This is just random gibberish dis. You can argue better than that, come on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the attack had been successful it would have incited instability and tensions and caused problems for the Syrian regime. Syria is a relatively secular state, it's basically a totalitarian state too and the regime keeps a very close watch on different groups. An extremist Islamic group (that presumably attacked the Embassy) is going to be hostile to the regime and such groups through their extreme religious agenda challenge the secular nature of the Syrian regime.

    It was an attack on the US dis, its nonsense to suggest anything else.
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