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Feminist mouths off Steve Irwin.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Some of those quotes undoubtedly come from fringe feminists, but Greer, Dworkin, Ti-Grace Atkinson and Catherine McKinnon are certainly not fringe characters.

    Have you heard of the word 'hyperbole' or saying things for effect?

    The vast, vast, vast majority of people who label themselves feminists are not frigid, man haters who think that sex should be sapphic, but aiming for some sort of equality between men and women.

    That seems perfectly reasonable to me
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Have you heard of the word 'hyperbole' or saying things for effect?

    Hyperbole is exagerrating something. "I've got a million more pages left of my homework" or something like that. Those quotes aren not examples of hyperbole. I wouldn't call them feminists, they're misandrists who pretend to be feminists.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They aren't exactly mainstream either.

    You might as well argue that Farakhan represents the enthic equality views in the US, or that Bin Laden represents view of Muslims.

    Errr...yes they are. Greer is about as mainstream as you can get, Dworkin is studied in university courses, McKinnon is a well-known feminist legal expert and professor at the Universities of Michigan and Chicago.
    Extremists get the publicity because their comments are sensational, that doesn't mean that they are even close to the majority stance. Feminism came about at a time when rights were few and far between - most feminists don't not subscribe even to the views of those you mentioned.

    These people are not the lunatic fringe of feminism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Have you heard of the word 'hyperbole' or saying things for effect?

    Ah right, it's all fine because they don't really mean it. :rolleyes:

    Get real.

    Take a look at their work and you will SEE they mean it.
    The vast, vast, vast majority of people who label themselves feminists are not frigid, man haters who think that sex should be sapphic, but aiming for some sort of equality between men and women.

    Then why is Greer being heralded as some kind of icon worthy of admiration, a woman who not only is blatantly misandrist herself, but lavishes praise upon the likes of Andrea Dworkin? :confused:

    I'm not saying all people who define themselves as feminists believe such bigotry, much in the same way not all BNP supporters are hysterical white supremacists - they are either ignorant, or refuse to admit, their movement's true principles.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Errr...yes they are. Greer is about as mainstream as you can get, Dworkin is studied in university courses, McKinnon is a well-known feminist legal expert and professor at the Universities of Michigan and Chicago.

    These people are not the lunatic fringe of feminism.

    Except there's already been some feminists on this thread and they don't seem to subscribe to these comments, or at least Kermit has never mentioned that GWST beats him with high heels and then shoves an apple in his mouth
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Then why is Greer being heralded as some kind of icon worthy of admiration, a woman who not only is blatantly misandrist herself, but lavishes praise upon the likes of Andrea Dworkin? :confused: .

    Er, but several of the people on this thread have said who are feminists say they don't think much of her work. Others have said that it was pretty ground breaking stuff, whether agreed with or not.
    I'm not saying all people who define themselves as feminists believe such bigotry, much in the same way not all BNP supporters are hysterical white supremacists - they are either ignorant, or refuse to admit, their movement's true principles

    That's not to be post of the week - equating feminism with facism. The true principles of feminism is not some sort female superstate where men are second-class citizens (though a very small extreme minority of feminists may want that), but a society where women are treated the same as men.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, th eobjection was because you seemed to use it as an insult.
    Which I explained many times from the beginning it wasn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Except there's already been some feminists on this thread and they don't seem to subscribe to these comments, or at least Kermit has never mentioned that GWST beats him with high heels and then shoves an apple in his mouth

    On the contrary, they have either praised Greer or defended her. Let's remember this a woman who backs Andrea Dworkin...which says more than enough.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Er, but several of the people on this thread have said who are feminists say they don't think much of her work. Others have said that it was pretty ground breaking stuff, whether agreed with or not.

    They say they don't like her, but still defend her, and do not condemn her comments. Maybe you can't read between the lines here, but I certainly can.
    That's not to be post of the week - equating feminism with facism. The true principles of feminism is not some sort female superstate where men are second-class citizens (though a very small extreme minority of feminists may want that), but a society where women are treated the same as men.

    I didn't equate feminism with fascism you fool, I drew a comparison between the mindset of their followers. Quite a difference.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    They say they don't like her, but still defend her, and do not condemn her comments. Maybe you can't read between the lines here, but I certainly can.

    Well perhaps you might want to read what people write rather than read between the lines and your own intepretation

    I didn't equate feminism with fascism you fool, I drew a comparison between the mindset of their followers. Quite a difference

    Not a very good comparison, in fact a dreadfully bad one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Well perhaps you might want to read what people write rather than read between the lines and your own intepretation

    Why not take your own advice NQA. Greer hasn't been condemned, only praised or defended. Fact.
    Not a very good comparison, in fact a dreadfully bad one.

    Yeah, so bad you hope it doesn't become post of the week. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    spliffie makes some very good points i'm afraid, i'm not wary of the feminist movement because i don't want women to have equal rights, if that's what it means to be a feminist then i am one........no i'm wary of certain (arguably mainstream) elements within the movement that hide behind the label feminism as thinly veiled hatred for the existence of man, because we have all been actively oppressing women for thousands of years :rolleyes: i mean get a grip.......of course i did try to point this out a long time ago but not many people understood what i was getting at so i left it alone, but spliffie's points are valid ones. nuff said.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Why not take your own advice NQA. Greer hasn't been condemned, only praised or defended. Fact.

    Yes reading between the lines I think you're a misogynist who can't accept that women wanting equality (aka feminism) doesn't equate to women hating men (aka misandry). God it must be a real blow that nowdays women see more to their lives than the bedroom and the kitchen.

    PS You're right - this reading between the lines is fun



    Yeah, so bad you hope it doesn't become post of the week. :rolleyes:

    Oh for pure amusement value it has to be post of the week. C'mon it was one of the funniest things I've read all week.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Yes reading between the lines I think you're a misogynist who can't accept that women wanting equality (aka feminism) doesn't equate to women hating men (aka misandry). God it must be a real blow that nowdays women see more to their lives than the bedroom and the kitchen.

    I'm no mysogynist. I've always supported the idea of equal pay for equal work, not to mention the fact most of my friends at uni are female - which blows that theory right out of the water.

    What I'm taking issue with here are people's open support for the likes the Greer and the ridiculous suggestion that every fair-minded, non-mysognistic male is feminist by default, considering the evident bigotry of well-known, mainstream feminists towards men - something for which you and others can only make the most pathetic excuses. .

    Instead of lambasting me for highlighting such bigotry and exposing a blatant double standard, how about you address the very people who explicity support those who are undeniable, self-affirmed misandrists?

    The irony, of course, is that with feminists like Greer and Dworkin spouting divisive, hateful bile about men being freaks of nature and claiming all heterosexual intercourse is rape, legitimate issues regarding women's rights and welfare will be seriously hindered.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Damn those pesky feminists eh, when will they learn to keep their mouths shut and get back to the kitchen....


    I think that feminists are unneccessary nowadays. Sure, a lot of repression might still be going on but not in the "you should stay in the kitchen where you belong BITCH!" sort of way.

    I agree with her in the matter of intruding on animals but we are talking about a man who was wildly passionate and enthralled by creatures big and small. I can see both points.

    Germaine should have kept her mouth shut at least until all of this has died down. She was just being outspoken and being a total cunt and i bet when she's told to shut her big fucking mouth that she'll bang on about female repression.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jazza wrote:
    I think that feminists are unneccessary nowadays. Sure, a lot of repression might still be going on but not in the "you should stay in the kitchen where you belong BITCH!" sort of way.

    You'd be very surprised.

    But even if that were the case, and no woman was being chained to the kitchen sink, there are any number of situations, countries, cultures and circumstances where women have been and continue to be horrifically repressed and the feminist voice is still struggling to be louder than a whisper. Just because we as a society are affording women a hell of a lot more opportunities and rights than in the past doesn't make feminism redundant. I certainly hope feminists aren't now widely viewed as unnecessary, maybe we'll be culled :chin:

    That's a whole other topic, of course.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jazza wrote:
    Germaine should have kept her mouth shut at least until all of this has died down. She was just being outspoken and being a total cunt and i bet when she's told to shut her big fucking mouth that she'll bang on about female repression.

    Maybe in the name of tact she should've, but she didn't and since freedom of speech is a pretty popular concept then it's fair fucks to her as far as I'm concerned.

    You seriously underestimate her intelligence and ability to weather controversial storms if you think she will try and fight the onslaught of criticism by claiming she is repressed and attacked because of her sex.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One thing that annoys a lot of people, including a lot of women is the insinuation a lot of feminists make that a woman has no place in the kitchen or at home in general. A lot of women, my mum included wanted to stay at home and take care of the kids. A lot of feminists say a woman shouldn't do this because it's a sign of repression, who are they to tell women what and what not to do? Maybe I'm wrong but that's the impression I'm getting looking at the background of these people and extracts of their works.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think what most feminists would argue for is the opportunity to have the choice whether they stay at home or go to work. Unfortunately in the past they had no choice but to stay at home and now a lot of women have no choice but to go to work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The difference essentially is that women now (largely, and in the Western world specifically) have the choice and a firm say in how much of their time and energy - if any at all - they spend in the kitchen, or starching shirt collars or dusting the dado rail (not a euphemism :p ).

    There's nowt wrong with women continuing to take on the domestic role, in fact many still wish - and are happy - to do so. But the expectation that this is what they will do upon "settling down", the assumption of forty (or fewer) years ago that they would forsake their career when they found themselves a nice man and got up the spout... well those expectations are gone and that can only be a good thing. Many women would probably be very reluctant to go out and become some high-flying career gal, and would rather tend to their family and their home. They still have the freedom to do that, all that has changed is that they also have the freedom to pursue other goals and lifestyles if that is their will.

    But yes, the whole "freed from the kitchen sink" spiel does sometimes undermine the importance of that role in a family, and also makes women feel like they're doing their contemporaries and women of the past a disservice. I do think that kind of attitude is fading, and the one-size-fits-all approach to feminism and what a woman "should" be doing if she is strong-minded and dedicated to equality has most certainly been flipped on its arse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    The difference essentially is that women now (largely, and in the Western world specifically) have the choice and a firm say in how much of their time and energy - if any at all - they spend in the kitchen, or starching shirt collars or dusting the dado rail (not a euphemism :p ).

    Choice is limited by economic circumstances. Millions of women don't have the choice - they have to work to support their family.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, of course, but then that's not really specific to the feminist issue of career women vs. homemakers. It's a general economic issue, as you say, that applies to men and women who need to make ends meet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep. But it clearly illustrates the lie that all women have choice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yep. But it clearly illustrates the lie that all women have choice.

    That's equality though Blagsta, because many men don't have a choice either ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Greer hasn't been condemned, only praised or defended. Fact.

    "Germaine Greer is a pathetic, shallow woman
    Greer is far more famous for her name than anything else
    Why does anyone take Greer seriously?
    a scraggly old feminist cunt
    Shes a whiney old bag anyway, I can't say I've ever been fond of her.
    She's a sad, desperate old hack
    a rent a quote hack
    Stupid Bitch
    She might talk nonsense most of the time
    I speak as someone who cannot stand Greer"

    All quotes from this thread - none attributable to either you or HIT.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Germaine Greer is a pathetic, shallow woman
    Greer is far more famous for her name than anything else
    Why does anyone take Greer seriously?
    a scraggly old feminist cunt
    Shes a whiney old bag anyway, I can't say I've ever been fond of her.
    She's a sad, desperate old hack
    a rent a quote hack
    Stupid Bitch
    She might talk nonsense most of the time
    I speak as someone who cannot stand Greer"

    All quotes from this thread - none attributable to either you or HIT.

    And some of them are mine too :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    :crying: Radio 4 doesn't have a man's hour and swimming pools have women only times.

    Yeah, us men are so disadvantaged I'm going to throw myself under a racehorse in protest.

    I love the way you picked the most insignificant thing in the link and ignored the more serious ones.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lifeless wrote:
    I love the way you picked the most insignificant thing in the link and ignored the more serious ones.

    Its obviously a bollocks article though - it tries to paint Woman's Hour as some kind of hotbed of Valeria Solanas style bonkersness. Its not. The article is shite.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    heh, slight overreactions here... her plea for some media attention worked, though it came through with total disrespect to his friends and family, she clearly only thinks of herself. How people can idolise someone who would do that no matter what her views are is beyond me : x
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