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young women - it's your world

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's funny, on the topic of "ruthless", that its [Ruth] origins are as meaning "compassionate" and ruthless became a girls' name :)

    I have known as many ruthless women as I have men. They just exhibit their ruthlessness and tenacity in completely different ways.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Group bonding and pack loyalty are all seen as successful models of animal survival - only very few creatures live alone with social bonding. The term 'survival of the fittest' wasn't used by Darwin or modern evolutionary scientists - in fact recent studies have shown that evolutionary development often encourages more empathic and supportive behaviour.
    True. With Chimpanzees, for example, it is possible for an individual member's social status to increase through helping other members of the group rather than through violence and force.

    And admittedly I'm basing this on that Tribe programme on the BBC, but it often seems that in some of these cultures, it is an older woman that everyone goes to for advice or permission for things, and she seems to be at the centre of the tribe. But I'm only going off a documentary, so you can't be sure.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    It's funny, on the topic of "ruthless", that its [Ruth] origins are as meaning "compassionate" and ruthless became a girls' name :)

    I have known as many ruthless women as I have men. They just exhibit their ruthlessness and tenacity in completely different ways.
    Can you give me some examples of how the men and the women exhibit their ruthlessness and tenacity? I am bursting to say something about it but I want to clarify what you mean first :p
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    sophia wrote:
    We're all a mixture of both masculine and feminine characteristics, and you might have more of one than the other, and we live in a society that values and privileges masculinity over femininity, aggression over nurturance, fighting wars and killing people over caring for people.
    I suppose so, but what exactly is the defining criteria for deciding whether one characteristic is "masculine" or "feminine"? (And don't these words actually mean "male" and "female"?) And where did these criteria come from?
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,228 Skive's The Limit
    Jim V wrote:
    Group bonding and pack loyalty are all seen as successful models of animal survival - only very few creatures live alone with social bonding. The term 'survival of the fittest' wasn't used by Darwin or modern evolutionary scientists - in fact recent studies have shown that evolutionary development often encourages more empathic and supportive behaviour.

    OK.

    But don't these animal packs and groups almost always have leaders, and these leaders are almost always the most agressive animal in the pack?

    And throughout nature are there not instances where the female chooses her mate through impressive displays and power?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can you give me some examples of how the men and the women exhibit their ruthlessness and tenacity? I am bursting to say something about it but I want to clarify what you mean first

    Do I have to? That will require actual deep thought /whining :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    And throughout nature are there not instances where the female chooses her mate through impressive displays and power?

    I thought it was generally the male with the impressive plumage/scary spikes coming out of neck/mad scrapping with other animals to prove strength and virility etc.

    But maybe I'm just thinking of peacocks and those weird frogs :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, don't worry. I am too lazy to make my point now anyway!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good :razz:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Briggi I am under your thumb. You are particularly ruthless today :yes: :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    OK.

    But don't these animal packs and groups almost always have leaders, and these leaders are almost always the most agressive animal in the pack?

    And throughout nature are there not instances where the female chooses her mate through impressive displays and power?

    Throughout nature that is pretty much invariably the case. Males will always hold more "official" political power simply because of psycho-physical difference - the fact that men produce large amounts of testosterone whilst women produce oxytocin being a good example.

    What is also the case is that femininity and masculinity work together as a successful dynamic. One is no more "useful" than the other, 'coz they're dependent on each other.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,228 Skive's The Limit
    briggi wrote:
    I thought it was generally the male with the impressive plumage/scary spikes coming out of neck/mad scrapping with other animals to prove strength and virility etc.

    That's the sort of thing I mean.

    Of course that animlas, but at the end of the day that's all we are. In the scheme of things it wasn't all that long ago all we had to do to pull was crack a club over a birds head and drag her back to your cave. :D
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    What is also the case is that femininity and masculinity work together as a successful dynamic. One is no more "useful" than the other, 'coz they're dependent on each other.
    That's very true. Unfortunately, people like Mattliverpool (notbeingpersonaljustsayingthisbecausehemadethepointearlier) just view it as the woman hanging onto a bloke's arm because he has power. Heaven forbid she should actually contribute anything to his power, or to his personality and life, thus allowing him to have that power.

    I think this also treads on the divorce settlement territory as well.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Why is testosterone a requirement for being a politician, please?
    It makes you smell good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    And throughout nature are there not instances where the female chooses her mate through impressive displays and power?
    Well there's tarantulas who go on to eat the male afterwards (I think it's tarantulas anyway) but I'm not advocating that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Why is testosterone a requirement for being a politician, please?

    I didn't say it was.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Well there's tarantulas who go on to eat the male afterwards (I think it's tarantulas anyway) but I'm not advocating that.
    :lol: :thumb:
    And let's not forget that there are animals that eat their own or others' young.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,228 Skive's The Limit
    Mattliverpool (notbeingpersonaljustsayingthisbecausehemadethepointearlier) just view it as the woman hanging onto a bloke's arm because he has power.

    Well women are attracted to power I think, far more then men. But that's not saying that all women are gold diggers.

    Women are attracted to masculine qualities, and men to feminine qualities.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well there's tarantulas who go on to eat the male afterwards (I think it's tarantulas anyway) but I'm not advocating that.
    I think quite a lot of spiders eat their mates after well, mating.

    Just had a thought - bees and ants have queens, where the huge enormous fat female is in charge, and has hundreds of soldiers and workers beneath her. <<this is probably not relevant!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    Well women are attracted to power I think, far more then men. But that's not saying that all women are gold diggers.

    Women are attracted to masculine qualities, and men to feminine qualities.
    This is thinking back to Psychology A level, but biologically, men are attracted to young, fertile looking girls in order to procreate as fast as possible and continue their genes. Women are more attracted to powerful males because they can provide and protect for them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Well can you clarify your point that:

    I clearly didn't claim an abundance of testosterone is a pre-requisite to becoming a politician, although its usefulness in rising to the top level of politics and various competitive professions surely doesn't require explanation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Testosterone is the hormone that makes us competetive non? So naturally it would be useful in getting "to the top" (I keep saying this, I'm probably not sure what I mean) because it is very competetive. So anything that helps us be competetive is good. Or something.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    OK.

    But don't these animal packs and groups almost always have leaders, and these leaders are almost always the most agressive animal in the pack?

    And throughout nature are there not instances where the female chooses her mate through impressive displays and power?

    Depends how you define agressiveness - there's plenty of groups that choose the best killer as the leader - for obvious survival needs. But it might be a misnomer to see that as agressiveness.

    The lion that can bring down a wilderbeast quickly is going to be in a more dominant position - especially as it eats more and expends less energy. However an agressive lion that constantly fights amongst the pack is often ostracised and removed from the pack.

    And the leader of the pack tends again to be the most successful rather than the strongest. A good sense of where water or the next meat might be found would keep the pack well fed - animals don't fight for leadership until there are problems in their lifestyle.

    And there are examples of other animals that don't work in this way - vampire bats for example show no evidence of any leader and will often share blood amongst the hungry - later returning to the bat they helped for blood when they need it in the future; implying a group mentality rather than a leader/servant relationship.

    And leadership itself is a difficult thing to define in nature - other than sexual benefits - although many animal packs exhibit group sexual behaviour, multiple sexual partners for male and female - it's actually a position of responsibility with many dangers rather than the human view of leadership often being one of exploitation.

    In may be that 'power' in a human sense doesn't really relate to anything in nature.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    (Re: Sophia)
    :yes:

    I was making an observation, rather than an opinion, I think.

    Competetiveness is good though. I mean, you may have loads of really good qualities but are such a pushover that someone else beats you because they are moe competetive, and nobody ever gets to benefit from your good characteristics. Being competetive doesn't necessarily mean that you can't be anything else, but if you've got no gumption you're not going to get anywhere!
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