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Do the Welsh hate the English?
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Nothing to do with the Welsh local councillers granting big companies planning permission in their towns then? And nothing to do with the Welsh people actually liking these products enough to make it financially viable for them to exist in their towns? Or is it only tourists from England that eat McDonalds?
so thats a long winded way of saying, that actually welsh people do hate the english
What kind of stand exactly should I take? Should I automatically hate anybody who was born south of Barrow (which would include all of Wales). Should I automatically hate anyone who is trying to join the local community as an outsider?
A couple from Llandudno moved into the farm half a mile away from my parents. They are renovating it as a holiday home. Nobody from our local community could afford to buy it because so many outsiders from elsewhere have driven up prices and turned the village into a ghost town. On the other hand, there are some lovely people who have moved in and their kids go to the local schools, they go to the local church, and they really want to integrate and be a part of the community. It's not their fault that they aren't as lucky as me by being born here.
Well , it's everything to do with 'Welsh' local councillers granting the planning permision! Actually most of the people who run my local council arn't even Welsh. Does anyone have a local council that isn't purely motivated by money or that actually takes on board the concerns of local people!? The problem is that all the council is interested in is money and expanding the town by bringing big money businesses here and every single one of them is english run .The supposed advantage to local people is that they bring jobs with them but the reality is that most the top jobs(managers etc ) are reserved for the english in the area or they bring in english managers from outside the area to do the jobs. Therefore the local people are left with the lowest paid work, stacking shelves, working behind counters etc. So, the inevitable happens with the infux of people with a financial advantage, house prices rice and local people can't afford to buy a home in their own town. To go back to your point about why the businesses are here in the first place i 'll give you an example of a small town near me. It is a pretty little Welsh village that has been overun with retirees and english business. Before long the local businesses couldn't compete and had to sell up. After a short time the locals were the minority in the town and a once welsh speaking area has hardly any welsh speakers left! Not only that but they are demanding local conviniences for the town such as a Tesco etc despite protests from the few locals who are left. The truth is that if you end up being a minority in your home town you have very little say in what happens to it. The result is that a sense of resentment forms and from my point of view understandably. It's the old saying 'money makes the world go round' but it certainly doesn't make it right!. If people want to understand what the problem is between Welsh and english, surely it makes sense to look at the reasons behind the problem.
who voted the people onto the councils then?
Firstly this isn't about hate, it's about outlining a set of events that have occured. If someone wants to move into a community I think it is only reasonable that they consider the impact they will have on that area. If they do that and show respect to the local people and an appreciation of what is already there and also make themselves a part of that community then they will almost certainly be welcomed with open arms regardless of where they are from. In most parts of Wales that hasnt happened and the locals have merely been pushed aside. The difference is the language, I can't emphasise enough what a loss to everyone it would be to lose that. Losing local dialects is bad enough which also happens here , but to lose an entire language would be a travesty. Welsh learners are on the increase but it is school taught welsh not the local welsh passed down from family to family because the communities are disapearing. There are definately similar problems all over england but in places such as cornwal and the Yorkshire dales there are certain measures that have been taken to restrict the amout of people allowed to move into the area through building restricions. Nothing like that applies in Wales. As for taking a stand ,maybe similar legislation would work well in your home town
WHO is selling "all the property" to the "invaders" ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0340870230/026-1206037-0134821?v=glance&n=266239&v=glance
I'm not a big fan of the Welsh, so who cares.
Well you have just made my point for me.Why is do you think that large percentages of Wales have lost their language? Do you think they just woke up one day and thought Oh I won't bother any more! We have had our language taken from us and yes I point the finger at the english because that is the the reason. Our communities have been broken up by english incomers who bring more english incomers with them ,who demand english medium schools, english speaking businesses etc and legislation to prevent this has not and is not in place. So, the majority of Welsh people who don't speak welsh actually had no choice in the first place. The decline in welsh speaking areas over the last century is unreal, what i'm trying to outline is the process by which this happened, you don't need to take my word for it by all means go and look it into it for yourself. You do have a very good point however, if Welsh cannot be used within communities and for business etc ( and i mean beyond the point of councils putting god knows how much to teach people to say the odd bore da!) then yes, the language will not grow, that is my point. I am learning welsh as an adult as my parents did not send me to a welsh speaking school, because there wasn't one in the area! My children on the other hand have access to the language and are bilingual. The problem is there is nowhere for them to use their welsh outside of the classroom. The reason, well we are going around in circles! I just think english people should look at the situation for what it is, be open minded to what is going on Wales without going on the defensive and saying , oh they just hate us because believe me I don't. It is political correctness gone mad if you cannot point out the facts without being labelled a racist.;)
Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam!
Hi, sorry i'm a bit late getting back to this! As I said before we have big problems with local councils who put big money before local need. I know there are similar problems else where . Mainly most of the new builds are obviously granted planning permission by local councils, one advantage Wales has is an abundant amount of land which is being sold off bit by bit. The number of new housing estates alone that have popped up around my area over the last few years is amazing. Most of them priced well above two hundred thousand each ,so out of reach for most of the local people who end up being pushed into the, shall we say less desirable areas such as council estates. Unfortunately our council hasn't built any new housing stock since the 1970's so there is a lot of frustration. It's just not balanced at all. As for businesses well, the population of the town is expanding so we have had five new massive shopping centres built over the last few years, every one english owned. The smaller local businesses just couldn't compete so the majority are gone. We are a minority in our own town now so have even less say in what happens. Just to point out that there are some english people here who strongly sympathise with what is going on. They have a completely different attitude to the big money people and have made themselves very much part of the community ( whats left of it!). Those people are the first to say that what is happening here is wrong because they have seen it all first hand.
You don't need to tell me about any of this, I'm from the Lake District. I know exactly what it's like to have every other house on a street being the second home of some rich Londoner. I know what it's like for locals not to be able to afford a house because they're all being bought up by people planning on renting them out. South Wales and South Cumbria are the two highest growth areas over the last few years in terms of house prices, so every issue you've got, I have as well. But like I said, I don't have that line on the map that lets me point a finger at 'them'.
So the argument that Welsh isn't popular with young Welsh people is either a misinterpretation on your part - or a malicious fabrication. Please don't presume to know what the "vast majority" do and think.
Now, I like England. As a country and as a people. There are, of course, many prime examples of individuals who make me very angry. Matadore, for example.
You see, Matadore, regardless of Wales' current economic value - if it wasn't for the Coal Mines in the 18th and 19th Centuries, you'd still be knee-deep in your own pre-industrial revolution Mancunian shit. If you hadn't drowned two Welsh villages to provide yourself with water, no doubt you'd have had to learn the hard way, why sea water isn't an option.
And as for Wales not being friendly - well it all depends. It's true that Wales is the "Deep South" area of Britain, in that it's pretty insular and can eye 'incomers' with suspicion and even contempt.
What people tend to forget is that Wales and England are only geographical neighbors. Culturally and "personality-wise" they're on opposing sides of the Globe. People often bring a sense of being unwelcome on themselves.
It is a myth that the the Welsh will ignore you or automatically switch from English to Welsh if you enter a pub. You have to conider the fact that the patrons were probably speaking Welsh long before you arrived - and that they aren't doing it to offend you personally. I guess the differences can be slightly overwhelming, considering you've only traveled a few hunderd miles to get to another part of the UK that is completely foreign.
I'm friendly. I've spoken to numerous English tourists at my Local. You usually find them sitting alone or in small groups eyeing the Welsh speakers with what seems to be fear. The locals sense that and decide not to approach in case they are uwnanted. Well I introduce myself anyway. And we end up having a great night.
Being (arguably) the last surviving hereditary Celts in the World - the Welsh, certainly in the North and West, have very strong elements of both sides of being a Celt.
With most of you, I'd banter away friendly like, and do the whole dry wit routine. But just as easily, with the likes of Matadore - I would use a pint glass as a weapon - and as is traditional, no one would say a word.
You see, Matadore, you can talk big on your side of the keyboard - but if you really want to know how passionately the Welsh hate your xenophobic sort - come to my local and nyself and many others will gladly change your mind, and your physical gender, in one fell swoop.
The rest of you? Come up and I'll buy you a drink! And we can tease eachother about cultural differences and argue about each other's importance - but above all we'd keep it friendly!
Well that was a long post, and I think the lack of harsh consonants and excessive vowels is making me feel quite faint!
This concerns me. I'm from a rural part of North Wales and I don't hate Cardiff. Though the way you say We even have the welsh national anthem sung at us by opposition rugby fans. - makes it seem like the Welsh Anthem does not apply to you? Well it does, and it should. Perhaps it's not Cardiff that the country folks dislike, per se - but individuals who live in Wales, and seem to hate it?
In an official sense, that is untrue. Wales, Scotland, NI and England are part of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
In a simpler sense, yes - British politics, Media coverage and general concerns revolve around England.
I'm sure your like-minded fellow countrymen would appreciate your opinion! But it isn't quite accurate.
Scotland was never conquered. It joined with England in 1603. Northern Ireland was never conquered, it simply chose to stay with the UK when the rest of Ireland gained Independence. Wales wasn't conquered either, despite popular belief. In around 1282, Wales stopped warring with the English and as the Welsh Royal family died out, the English annexed Wales to England. In the early 15th Century Owain Glyndwr rebelled against this and it was as a result of this that Henry IV placed sanctions on Welsh citizens - that remained in place until the Acts of Union in 1537, when Wales was united with, not merged with England. Wales has never been an extenstion of England - but it has since medieval times, shared common political methods.
That Wales has retained her heritage, culture, language, traditions and Celtic bloodline serves as a testament to why England never really "conquered" Wales. That you are adamant England did conquer the Celtic Nations serves as a testament that you are still pissed off that you didn't quite manage it.
And think about this for a moment. Really consider it. If every English person was of the same mind as you (And thank God most are good, fair people) - do you think We Celts would stick by you another moment? No. And instead of thinking about Scotland or Wales' hypothetical "post-republican" state of affairs - think of England's. The Welsh and Scots would have to pay their own taxes for a relatively small economy. The English would have to pay taxes for a nation reduced in geography, but still increasing in population.
I think it is much more honest, fair and accurate to ask "What would become of each Constituent Nation of the UK - should the Union break up?" - instead of just focusing on the Celtic parts. We would all no doubt survive, but we would all equally, suffer a blow to our respective economies. England too.
And let that be advice for the near future. Because it would seem the ties that bind this Union are breaking away of late. I wonder if it will survive much longer?
I think you'll find that Education and Health in Wales are governed (Impeccably, so far) by the Welsh Assembly.
The Assembly does have power, but as of 2006, any laws passed must go through Westminster first. In 2007 his will change in a further devolutionary step.
More lifesaving, yet expensive, drugs are available on the Welsh NHS than the English NHS, for example. And there are no school "league tables" in Wales - a system widely derided by England for being prejudicial and too "red-taped".
Who pays for that?
And you are indeed making presumptions. Rash ones too. Ones that do your Nation's image no good.
Why would someone moving to Wales learn Welsh? Courtesy? To fit in? That is why many Welsh people will eye the English with contempt. They see you walk into the shop with your broad English accent and ask for something. They think "Uh oh, our community is going to get ripped to shreds".
You also asy that many of your Welsh friends can speak no more Welsh than you can speak French. Is that something to be proud of? Should you glorify your monolingualism? Hmm....
And "Who pays for that?" - I expect the money is pooled in from taxing all different parts of the UK.
But like I said, if the vast majority of people in the area of Wales you're moving to don't speak Welsh as a first language, then learning Welsh is as useful as moving to a French-speaking part of Switzerland and learning German. Yes it's an official language, but if it's not useful to you, then you're not going to learn it, are you?
What's this got to do with anything? My point was in response to someone complaining that English people are moving to Wales and refusing to learn Welsh, and that is what is destroying the language. I was saying that it's easy to point the finger at English people moving to the country, whilst at the same time ignoring the fact that a large number of people born and bred in Wales either cannot speak the language very well, or simply choose not to.