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Firemen who refused to leaflet out gay march disciplined

BillieTheBotBillieTheBot 🤖Posts: 8,656 Automated Account
I've nicked this thread off U75 as it's an interesting topic I thought...
Nine firefighters who refused to offer safety advice to people attending a gay pride march have been disciplined.
A watch manager in Glasgow has been demoted to crew manager with a £5,000 salary cut. The remaining firefighters were given a written warning.

Strathclyde Fire and Rescue said all nine would undergo diversity training.

A spokesman said: "The nine now accept that they should have performed their duties. Their refusal was a fundamental breach of their core responsibilities."

The nine firefighters are based at Cowcaddens and were asked to distribute community safety advice to people attending the Pride Scotia festival in George Square on 24 June.

[...]. Some of the firefighters involved had argued it would be embarrassing for them to turn up in uniform to the Pride Scotia event, while others claimed it would contradict their moral beliefs.

The decision to discipline the firefighters was described by the Roman Catholic Church as "dismaying".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5301334.stm

Now I'm 100% behind the disciplinary action. One of the duties and jobs of firemen is attend such events and safeguard the safety of the public.

Frankly, the 'concerns' about being embarrassing for the firemen to show up in uniform are breathtakingly idiotic and unfounded, and a typical ignorant reaction not unlike the bloke who doesn't want to be stand close to a gay man at a gathering just in case he tries to touch or kiss him.

As for those claiming 'moral' reasons, perhaps they should leave the force altogether. Can we trust them to attend a fire at a gay nightclub and perform to their full abilities?


But no doubt some of you will disagree so fire away...
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nah I agree, who do you post under over there or would that be privelidge information?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't see why anyone would disagree. You can fully disapprove of someone else's lifestyle, as everyone on here does in some variation or another, but if you are in a position of responsibility as these men were you have an overriding duty to make sure other people are safe.

    That is to say, and though most of you don't care, with the backing of the bible, it doesn't matter how someone lives their life, you are meant to care for them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't see why anyone would disagree - there in a uniformed job, where you can't pick and choose what you do. If there was a fire in a gay nightclub i'd expect the fire service to treat it the same as if it was Stringfellows.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    their business is in saving lives. end of.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The decision to discipline the firefighters was described by the Roman Catholic Church as "dismaying".
    That the sound of the Catholic Church sticking it's nose in again? They've already embarassed themselves once this week with the player given a yellow card for inciting the crowd, by commenting on hearsay.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That the sound of the Catholic Church sticking it's nose in again? They've already embarassed themselves once this week with the player given a yellow card for inciting the crowd, by commenting on hearsay.

    Well hope there church doesn't burn down and the Prods refuse to put it out - freedom of religion and all that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think a demotion is a bit OTT, and basically smacks of the Fire Service running scared of the gay rights lobby, but they should have been disciplined. As Fiend says, you have a duty to your fellow man, even if you detest how he behaves.

    Given the nature of the march, though, the firemen should have been given the option of not attending, provided that they could find a suitable replacement. They shouldn't be forced to join a march promoting something they strongly disagree with.

    Their core duties of putting out fires, and promotional duties, are entirely separate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm thinking of the main stream public... this sort of thing increases alienation between straights and gays.

    I don't like gay pride marches and disgagree with them anyway, not on principlethough.

    Oh I'll keep out of this one as I might sound homophobic.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    NQA wrote:
    Well hope there church doesn't burn down and the Prods refuse to put it out - freedom of religion and all that.
    :lol: That'd be the icing on the cake, really.

    They are doing at job - whilst at work, you can't pick and choose. And whilst not at work, they don't have to attend the event, do they?

    As for the Roman Catholic Church - hopefull oneday, the Vatican will be unable to extort the mone it needs and wastes. Then we can see the end of this homophobic, racist, organisation. And maybe, just maybe... Christianity could go back to what it was meant to be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    I don't like gay pride marches and disgagree with them anyway, not on principlethough.

    Oh I'll keep out of this one as I might sound homophobic.

    Perhaps you should because that previous line doesn't make sense ... :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's weird because iirc Luke is a homosexual himself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I think a demotion is a bit OTT, and basically smacks of the Fire Service running scared of the gay rights lobby, but they should have been disciplined. As Fiend says, you have a duty to your fellow man, even if you detest how he behaves.

    Whoa, hang on. He wasn't saving lives, he was asked to hand out leaflets.
    Given the nature of the march, though, the firemen should have been given the option of not attending, provided that they could find a suitable replacement. They shouldn't be forced to join a march promoting something they strongly disagree with.

    Their core duties of putting out fires, and promotional duties, are entirely separate.

    TBH, his seniors should be on a charge for wasting money like this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whoa, hang on. He wasn't saving lives, he was asked to hand out leaflets.

    Fire prevention is part of their duties. They were basically refusing to do their job
    TBH, his seniors should be on a charge for wasting money like this

    What trying to reduce the amount of fires. Whilst I admit that trying to prevent fires starting isn't nearlly as exciting as speeding down the street, sirens blazing (couldn't resist the cliche or the pun) its probably better to prevent than cure.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder if there'd be as much defense for the firefighters if it had been a black rights march.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can agree with the firefighter's point of view. They are there to handout leaflets (although it is in their job description), not put out fires therefore the gay nightclub on fire is a differenent situation.

    A fireman in uniform at a gay rights parade is not going to be let by unignored, its unfair to put them in a position where they are going almost being harrased by gay people
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    I don't like gay pride marches

    I don't either, i think they're crap and just an excuse to screw money out of people. Back in the 70's and 80's, maybe even early 90's, they served a purpose. Getting fairer rights for gay people i.e. age of consent, section 28, clause 25, partnership rights. But now there aren't many 'rights' a gay person is missing that a straight person has so i fail to see the point of (no pun intended) ramming your sexuality down someone elses throat.

    A festival, i.e. hiring a park for the day, fair, bands, stalls is ok IMO but they screw you sensless (for money). Look at Birmingham Pride this year. Normal Sunday night at our biggest club, The Nightingale, about £5 to get in. Pride Sunday £10 just to get into the street where the club is ! and another £17 to get through the door !! A friend and 3 mates went this year, so it cost 'em £108 to walk through the doors of a club. Gay community ? Bollocks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    olaola wrote:
    A fireman in uniform at a gay rights parade is not going to be let by unignored, its unfair to put them in a position where they are going almost being harrased by gay people
    But that's the point: they're not going to be harrased. They're not going to be felt up. They're not going to have to put up with lewd comments.

    That's just typical thinking of those who who haven't spoken face to face to a gay person in their lives, and who would probably be uncomfortable sharing a lift with one because they think the poof's going to jump on them.

    I have been to several gay marches. Policemen, nursers, firemen and other such workers are usually represented by a union/group, and nobody is giving them the catcall treatment- let alone sexually harass them. If anything they get a cheer of admiration and gratitude from the crowd.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Fire prevention is part of their duties. They were basically refusing to do their job



    What trying to reduce the amount of fires. Whilst I admit that trying to prevent fires starting isn't nearlly as exciting as speeding down the street, sirens blazing (couldn't resist the cliche or the pun) its probably better to prevent than cure.

    My arse.

    I've never seen Fireman handing out leaflets at other events. I am sure that the "men in uniform" aspect was never considered...
    Rubberskin wrote:
    I wonder if there'd be as much defense for the firefighters if it had been a black rights march.

    I'd be just as pissed off. It really is a waste of their time. How many of those leaflets were thrown on the floor/in a bin, do you think?

    As an aside though, the disciplinary action was correct. They had orders and they didn't follow them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But that's the point: they're not going to be harrased. They're not going to be felt up. They're not going to have to put up with lewd comments.

    That's just typical thinking of those who who haven't spoken face to face to a gay person in their lives, and who would probably be uncomfortable sharing a lift with one because they think the poof's going to jump on them.

    I have been to several gay marches. Policemen, nursers, firemen and other such workers are usually represented by a union/group, and nobody is giving them the catcall treatment- let alone sexually harass them. If anything they get a cheer of admiration and gratitude from the crowd.


    bollocks you cant say no trouble is going to happen because youve spoken to one gay person face to face and he was nice. There not all the same, everyone knows that the gay parade is very sexually charged, theres ques to stay at the hotels so they can copt off with each other, its not all innocent.

    Im offended by what happens in the streets, and i certainly would not want to be standing their in uniform handing out leaflets if i was a fireman
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    olaola wrote:
    bollocks you cant say no trouble is going to happen because youve spoken to one gay person face to face and he was nice.

    But Aladdin says he has spoken to many. And, ratio-wise, there are no more horrible gay people than there are straight people ...
    olaola wrote:
    There not all the same, everyone knows that the gay parade is very sexually charged, theres ques to stay at the hotels so they can copt off with each other, its not all innocent.

    And I have been, amongst other festivals etc, to Glastonbury countless times and straight people cop off in their tents quite openly.
    olaola wrote:
    Im offended by what happens in the streets, and i certainly would not want to be standing their in uniform handing out leaflets if i was a fireman

    Offended by what? Gays parading? Why? There is always plenty of notice that these parades are on so just stay away if you feel that you might start getting 'unnatural' inclinations ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never seen Fireman handing out leaflets at other events.

    Really ? I've seen them all over the place. They were at a Morrisson's not long ago, giving out free smoke alarms. Seen them at big and small fetes/fairs/rallies/get togethers. Shopping centres, schools, pride events in Birmingham, London and Manchester. They've even been down my street, fixing appointments for a fireman to come out and fit a smoke detector for £5, if you haven't got one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote:
    But Aladdin says he has spoken to many. And, ratio-wise, there are no more horrible gay people than there are straight people ...



    And I have been, amongst other festivals etc, to Glastonbury countless times and straight people cop off in their tents quite openly.



    Offended by what? Gays parading? Why? There is always plenty of notice that these parades are on so just stay away if you feel that you might start getting 'unnatural' inclinations ...


    Closing a perfectly good street to be interupted for a pointless parade ofends me. Gay or Straight it wouldnt matter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But what I have seen from other parades, businesses do a roaring trade ... and of course, noone is exempt.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My arse.

    I've never seen Fireman handing out leaflets at other events. I am sure that the "men in uniform" aspect was never considered....

    I have. they handed a leaflet to me in Walthamstow a couple of weeks ago.

    I'm not convinced that the senior management of the fire service are sending out firemen in uniform just so gays can get their kicks. And to be honest that seems to be a similar argument that you shouldn't have police or St John's Ambulance nearby.


    I'd be just as pissed off. It really is a waste of their time. How many of those leaflets were thrown on the floor/in a bin, do you think?

    Oh about 99% I would think, same as the health leaflets, or the adverts on TV. But gradually it becomes a cumulative effect, that the best way to be safe from fire is not to wait for firement to turn up, but not to have a fire in the first place.

    I've done KAPE (Keeping the Army in the Public Eye) and the majority of people we saw didn't go away thinking 'hell, I'm going to join up'. but what they did do was go away with a more positive imagie of soldiers. All uniformed services are seen as remote from the public whether that's soldiers, police or fire. When needed they're loved, but they're ignored (or even worse hated most of the time). getting them out in public, in a positive light is a good thing.

    PS As an aside the majority of fatalities from fires take place before the fire brigade is even called.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    olaola wrote:
    bollocks you cant say no trouble is going to happen because youve spoken to one gay person face to face and he was nice. There not all the same, everyone knows that the gay parade is very sexually charged, theres ques to stay at the hotels so they can copt off with each other, its not all innocent.

    Im offended by what happens in the streets, and i certainly would not want to be standing their in uniform handing out leaflets if i was a fireman

    If they're sexually abused by gays call in the police and nick the bastard. No different from a woman being sexually harrased by a man.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    If they're sexually abused by gays call in the police and nick the bastard. No different from a woman being sexually harrased by a man.


    the reason these parades are deemed so "successful" is because they end with no arrests, that doesnt neccesserily mean good behaviour. The police are too scared to arrests anyone at a gay rights parade at the risks of being judged homophobic
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    olaola wrote:
    The police are too scared to arrests anyone at a gay rights parade at the risks of being judged homophobic

    I've really concentrated on keeping my language clean since i came back, but f**k off you c**t. Whatever rod you've got up your ass pull it out now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    I have. they handed a leaflet to me in Walthamstow a couple of weeks ago.

    Then the London Service is more pro-active than my local one.
    I'm not convinced that the senior management of the fire service are sending out firemen in uniform just so gays can get their kicks. And to be honest that seems to be a similar argument that you shouldn't have police or St John's Ambulance nearby.

    It's what gets them noticed, to an extent and I wasn't just commenting because it was a Gay Pride event. I only have to look at the reaction of the girls in the office to understand what a man in uniform can do... much like me and Nurses I suppose ;)

    They would get more notice than perhaps at Notting Hill, for example.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    olaola wrote:
    The police are too scared to arrests anyone at a gay rights parade at the risks of being judged homophobic

    Apparently though, you have no worries about how you are viewed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    olaola wrote:
    bollocks you cant say no trouble is going to happen because youve spoken to one gay person face to face and he was nice. There not all the same, everyone knows that the gay parade is very sexually charged
    Is it really?

    How many gay marches have you been to?


    theres ques to stay at the hotels so they can copt off with each other, its not all innocent.
    Oh dear... :rolleyes:
    Im offended by what happens in the streets, and i certainly would not want to be standing their in uniform handing out leaflets if i was a fireman
    You need to get out more.
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