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Definietly!
Discipline is fine, but alone it is little.
You must provide the education and tools for people to get on in life. Without these, there is no chance of anthing being achieved.
What good will stuggling to get a GCSE in Pysics do someone who is... say... "less able" than the rest? None. Provide him with something he can use - say, a course in bricklaying - and he can go far. But without such skills, what can he achieve? Little. He'll sit about all day, unable to get a job because he doesn't have X amount of GCSE's, drink Stella in a field with his equally fucked over mates, and hurl abuse and beer cans at people walking by to pass time.
Brilliant. System failing alert. Yes, many people who also got thier GCSE's do this too. But they are a seperate issue to be delt with in other ways - they only do it after getting back from thier job.
But I feel there is a vast amounts of opportunity out there. Kids from my school have loads of GCSE options to choose from, many are vocational. Kids can go do brick laying too at age of 14. I don't think there is much of an excuse to not persue your am bitions.
That's why I think discipline is important as I thinkt hat's probably the only major issue that the system lacks.
It's all well and good blaming the parents, but what good does that do? What does it achieve? The parents will only behave like that because their parents did, etc etc.
Bullies are often bullied by others, its how they learn the behaviour. I was bullied by some people, I bullied others, that's life.
Blaming people achieves nothing, jailing people (parent or child) achieves nothing. That's the inherent flaw in Blair's masterplan. After all, how can the parent fix things if they're in prison, and how can they get a better job to better themselves if nobody will touch them because of their criminal record?
Once you can count to ten and spell your name, you don't need anything else. Beyond the age of about 12 the study of English, Maths and Science becomes unnecessary- once you can count and spell, everything else is just dressing. Unless you can think of a time your life has been immeasurably improved by knowing the cosine rule or the molecular weight of mercury?
We waste so much time teaching nonsense that there isn't any time left for the important stuff. I spent years learning about Shakespeare but not how to cook a chicken without giving myself food poisoning; I spent years learning about micro-electronics but not how to put up a shelf or change the wheel of a car.
Teaching ideas is important, but only for the people who have the desire to study the ideas, and appreciate the ideas. Shakespeare is wasted on people who'd rather be playing with their motorbike, French is wasted on people who consider exotic to be a week in Magaluf. They get nothing from it, and the people who do want to learn get held back, so what the hell is the point in making it mandatory, and determining a person's life prosects on how well they remember the French pluperfect tense, or how well they remember the soliloquy in Hamlet?
As for a lack of respect, good teachers get respect, bad ones don't. That's how it should be. Respect is earned, not a right, and teachers who are unable to control the majority of their pupils are not suitable for the role. Harsh, but true.
That's an incredibly simplistic viewpoint, and one that is not helpful at all.
I am not proposing that everyone should pass everything, but there is something intrinsically wrong about a system which actually prevents everyone passing, and then casts the "failures" on the scrapheap for all eternity.
GCSEs are set up so that people must fail. If everyone gets a high score, the exam was obviously too easy, and so the required marks go up until the required percentage of people fail. Some people could take GCSEs until they were 100, and still never pass them. They can put up ten shelves in the time it takes me to plug the drill in, though.
There is nothing wrong with failure, but you have to give people a chance to succeed. An schooling system which is all about exam results, and not about what you learn along the way, is a schooling system which fails many young people, and destroys any chances they had in life.
They then go and have children as its all they have to look forward to in life, and the cycle starts again.
and having role models for kids is important too. - i'm 100% sure it was for me.
i learned a lot about behaviour and people and whats acceptable and whats not from watching and copying other people - i do not mean either of my parents as if i'd copied them i'd no doubt be serving a life sentance by now.
this whole thread represents a very complicated issue and i don't think unless you've been through a shit upbringing and come out the other side, you can emphathize with any of this tbh.
I don’t like giving a justification of bullies were bullied by others so it’s OK? It clearly isn’t. The victim should have been given more support,that would limit the amount of damage it does.
I bullied so I’ll bully others? No excuse what’s so ever! I don’t accept it.
Blame is part of the solution. Someone admitting their in the wrong is a sstep in the right direction. Another step in the right direction is finding a solution to why they did it.
I must Blair would jail more parents actually. Blair and discipline sadly will never mix so let’s not go there.
I guess if a parent is put into prison because of their child, it shouldn’t go in their records since it would prevent the situation from bettering. I do on the whole, agree with jailing the parents and using sanctions, I mean, stopping their benefits. They would soon start to discipline. Ask parents how they would like their benefits to stop… they’d soon sort their brats out.
You’re right about some aspects but try telling employers that standards after 12 are efficient enough?
You believe in a more vocational approach?
I think school for everyone should be about equipping us to learn to right and spell to a satisfactory level. Numeracy should be a good standard. Ones knowledge should be satisfactory too. I.E grade C in a subject at GCSE. But if one finds it boring education isn’t for them. There are opportunities outside ‘A’ levels degrees etc.
I agree with this one. We should be allowed to flow our own direction. But I do feel the system does allow us to do this. However, it’s the general attitude to people preferring to go vocational. They are often wrongly looked down at.
No totally disagree. Children are the ones with the rights unfortunately. It should go both ways. Respect should go both ways. A teacher has chosen to teach, a child doesn’t often choose to go to university. Why would they want to teach if they didn’t respect their pupils?
Why would they choose a shit school etc?
Of course it should prevent some passing, the not so able.
It’s the outcome, the solution for these ‘failures’ that needs to be addressed, i.e a change of direction or try again.
If they keep failing then give up, yes, it is that simple. If you’re determined to do it, then go a head if it takes you 100 times, go for it. But if you honestly believe you can’t pass then move on. It’s not the end of the world.
If one fails an exams, their life is not ‘destroyed’. They should take up something else that interests them.
I agree. You must live through it to be able to give a honest answer.
what an idiot thats pure discriminating all teenage parents and low wage families,
I live the rest of my life with damage (both physical and mental) done by it. But different people deal with it in different ways. Whatever the reasons though, it is never excuseable.
TBH - School should cater more for all pupils, just the average is done at the minute... if you are really intelligent - you are never pushed and sit bored through lessons achieving little. If you are less intelligent, you struggle to do the work, and sit about not bothering. But the are scared to admit this incase of bringing about some sort of division. All people must be catered for.
Discipline is needed to be instilled into the children. If you don't, how are they to hope to cope with society? Society requires discipline to function. Without it, society breaks down. The police will arrest them as adults, and they'll get jailed, lose thier jobs they probably struggled to get... and the cycle starts over. Employers want them less as they have been jailed... oh dear.
They bum off the dole for the rest of thier lives. What have we achieved?
As for age 12 being enough - yeah, it is. Hell, half the jobs don't even require literacy - David Beckam sure doesn't need to be literate does he? Wouldn't affect his job if he couldn't read or write or count to three. Laying bricks? Nope. Mechanic? I used to know an illiterate mechanic.
But what discipline do you have in mind? Imprisonment?
You should be taught to respect all people, and there should be sanctions, but what good does jailing "bad" parents do to anyone?
It isn't OK to bully, of course it isn't, but if you don't understand and appreciate why something has happened, you can't stop it happening. If you just characterise all bullies as pure evil, you just push them to the margins, and make them even more violent and anti-social.
How exactly does removing food and heating money from people change behaviour? How does turfing families onto the street make them integrate into society better? I'm interested to see what your logic is on this one.
All imprisonment and severe financial penalties do is create more criminality. Why would you respect and abide by the rules of a society that puts your family in prison and kicks you out of your home because it doesn't like you. The stick never was much good at making people work for you instead of against you, you get people to work for you by giving them incentives to do it. Carrot not stick, that's what is needed, that's what's always been needed.
Well that's the problem.
We've all wrapped ourselves up so much in exam results that the important things get missed.
I do believe in a vocational approach.
There are opportunites outside a'levels and degrees, but there are very very few opportunities if you don't get 5 A*-C GCSE passes. There are practically none if you fail English, maths and science.
As I have explained already, the grade does not equate to the knowledge. If everyone passed the exam would be deemed too "easy", and the boundaries would be adjusted until an acceptable number of people failed.
A good teacher doesn't need to use the stick to get the kids to behave. A good teacher will use carrots, and so a good teacher will always hold the advantage. The second a teacher needs to rely on his seniority in order to keep control is the second he will get walked all over by the children. You always get some bastards, but its amazing how most bastards aren't anywhere near as bad with a strong and inspirational teacher as with a weak and negative one.