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While the cat`s away ....

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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    If you women want equality, you get EQAULITY.

    No more or less than men. THE SAME. No advantages, no disadvantages, nothing. That's how I see it. No "ladies first" - that isn't equality. No cheaper car insurance. No nothing.

    Just expect to be treated the same. That's the meaning of the word.

    Now, if you are a radical femenist that wants female supremecy, you can just fuck off. Ok?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because I thought feminism was about equality for women? About people being judged based on merit, rather than based on your gender? Giving women cheaper car insurance than men is judging women based purely on their gender, rather than on their driving ability and experience. You're assuming that someone is less likely to have a crash (or cause as much damage in any crash they do have) based on whether they have a penis or not.
    I agree with that tbh, but then again, I notice more men getting pissed off at any small advantages a woman might have but not particularly pissed off at the disadvantages they have.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed, to tamper with classics like Tom & Jerry and the Flintstones is just wrong...I thought it was enough that kids were indoctrinated with the anti-smoking message from the age of 4 or 5, now they're spoiling old cartoons. Anyway I'll bet plenty of those who watch the classics on Sky aren't even kids. I mean you don't have to be a kid to appreciate them.

    Just to try and get this back on topic I feel it's my duty to point out there's nothing classic about The Flintstones. :no: Tom and Jerry, yes. Barney and Fred, no.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with that tbh, but then again, I notice more men getting pissed off at any small advantages a woman might have but not particularly pissed off at the disadvantages they have.
    Well in the line of work I'm looking to break into (TV production) having a car that can fit passengers in is a huge advantage, and one of the first thing that small scale productions look for in staff. I'd say I'd have to pay approximately £500 more for my car insurance than the equivalent woman in my position. I'd say that's more than a little bit of an advantage, and in my particular situation, makes it more difficult for me to take any opportunities I might have, for no other reason than because I'm a man.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    sophia wrote:
    Name me one, just one "radical feminist" who wants female supremacy.

    I don't know any. But we did study it - anyone who thinks women should get better than men is one. It used to be a male dominated world - now it is mostly equal, except in a few areas where men are treated better, and a few where women are treated better. These need levelling in all fairness.

    If male chauvanism exists, why can't a female version? Are you trying to tell me some women don't think men are stupid? Are lesser creatures? It's a pig view, but some men hold it of women. Can't it be reversed?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    It used to be a male dominated world - now it is mostly equal, except in a few areas where men are treated better, and a few where women are treated better.
    Excuse me, but I think you've got a little perspective problem here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well in the line of work I'm looking to break into (TV production) having a car that can fit passengers in is a huge advantage, and one of the first thing that small scale productions look for in staff. I'd say I'd have to pay approximately £500 more for my car insurance than the equivalent woman in my position. I'd say that's more than a little bit of an advantage, and in my particular situation, makes it more difficult for me to take any opportunities I might have, for no other reason than because I'm a man.
    I'm sorry, but do women pay less for car insurance than men in the UK?

    (I hate it that I always arrive late to conversations... damn hour difference :grump: )
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    bluewisdom wrote:
    Excuse me, but I think you've got a little perspective problem here.

    Obviously, I am male so I have no idea what equality means.

    And yes, Women get cheaper car insurance than men. And in some jobs, women still get paid less than men. Both sides lose out in some areas.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Obviously, I am male so I have no idea what equality means.
    Why the sarcasm? I was just pointing out that if you're talking world-wise, to say it is mostly equal between men and women constitutes a great lack of perspective imo.
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    And yes, Women get cheaper car insurance than men. And in some jobs, women still get paid less than men. Both sides lose out in some areas.
    Sorry but I must keep asking, why is it that women get cheaper car insurance than men?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    because statistically they have less major accidents.
    Older people get cheaper car insurance too because statistically they have less accidents male AND female, but i never hear many people moaning about that tbh.
    Its REALLY expensive to get car insurance if youre a 17 year old boy, thats for sure, but thats because statistically theyre risky drivers and have a lot of accidents. Its not law that women have cheaper car insurance. its insurance companies charging less for some people, because of the risk stats and this doesnt just include women. Gender isnt the only thing that divides groups of people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    because statistically they have less major accidents.
    Older people get cheaper car insurance too because statistically they have less accidents male AND female, but i never hear many people moaning about that tbh.
    Its REALLY expensive to get car insurance if youre a 17 year old boy, thats for sure, but thats because statistically theyre risky drivers and have a lot of accidents. Its not law that women have cheaper car insurance. its insurance companies charging less for some people, because of the risk stats and this doesnt just include women. Gender isnt the only thing that divides groups of people.

    Well precisely. It's not some arbitrary decision based on women possessing a vagina - as if insurance companies are going to do that. It's because, statistically, like it or not - women have less accidents than men do, therefore costing insurance companies less. It's the same as ads where they offer cheaper insurance to people with 4 years no claims - people that have that might just be lucky, not necessarily better drivers. But it's like the ad says - 'why pay for other people's mistakes?'.

    And as a mod I totally shouldn't be contributing to the derailing of this thread so I'll stop there!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LucieLu wrote:
    And as a mod I totally shouldn't be contributing to the derailing of this thread so I'll stop there!

    It`s my thread and a discussion about "feminism" has a relevance in my mind to cats and mice and playing ! ! ! So permission granted .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    because statistically they have less major accidents.
    So? They're still profiling you based on your gender, and assuming that you're more likely to have an accident purely because you're a man. Let's say, for example, that statistics appeared that showed that people from certain ethnic backgrounds were more likely to make a claim. Would you have a problem if they asked you your ethnic background in an application too, and changed the price of your quote based on your answer? Or would that be racist?
    Older people get cheaper car insurance too because statistically they have less accidents male AND female, but i never hear many people moaning about that tbh.
    Well I think that's entirely unacceptable as well. It's assuming behaviour based on age and is just as bad as the gender issue. The only thing that should be considered with regards to the person, is their driving experience. A 50 year old going for their first insurance quote after passing their test should have exactly the same base rate as an 18 year old. Of course this would still result in most older people getting cheaper car insurance, but only because they have more experience, which is entirely acceptable. The only other factors are things like postcode, where claims are more likely to be made based on factors beyond the control of the claimant (crime levels, for example).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Experience driving isn't the only factor in having accidents, is it?
    It's the only factor that can be measured that doesn't involve some form of discrimination, yes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah i agree with you tbh. I dont think its got anything to do with feminism though. I dont think the fact that there is this one thing that insurance companies do, means that feminisms gone too far or anything or that there is no such thing as male privelige
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh no, I don't think it has anything to do with the feminist movement or anything like that. All I'm saying is that if you're for equality between the sexes, then you have to be for it across the board. Of course it's never going to happen fully, but I think the car insurance example is one of systematic inequality that for some reason is permitted when most other forms are (theoretically at least) not allowed.

    Right, ironically, I'm now going on a driving lesson.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    actually sophia, I do believe in positive discrimination, so i guess i do agree with you, but usually i think of it in terms of more important things than car insurance, which i dont benefit from anyway even though im a woman cos i dont drive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm quite happy for women to get better car insurance than men. I'm also happy that women can't join the infantry.

    I'm also happy that women have the vote and can become Prime Minister and I'm also bloody glad I don't have to go through childbirth.

    Equal in some ways, unequal in others (both ways) and I'm happy with that.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Just to try and get this back on topic I feel it's my duty to point out there's nothing classic about The Flintstones. :no: Tom and Jerry, yes. Barney and Fred, no.

    Meh...Hanna Barbera stuff rocked; Jetsons, Flintstones, Top Cat, Yogi Bear!!! I'd always call em classics. :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    id call em classics too tbh.
    They may not be the original cartoons like Disney, but classics nonetheless
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    equality between the sexes doesn't mean that in your private, personal relationships you have to advocate strict equality too. I call myself a feminist, yes. But in my everyday dealings with people on a personal, social level, that doesn't mean I can't expect them to treat me with courtesy and chivalry (especially if they're hoping to shag me. Then buying me dinner, or at least a few drinks, is definitely recommended). Because that's got nothing to do with law or politics, it's a feeling about how I want my personal relationships to be governed

    Are you advocating reciprocity,if not strict equality, in personal relationships ?

    If you are hoping to shag someone would you think about buying that someone dinner,or at least a few drinks ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Nope, I'm not a feminist in the bedroom :o

    :D:D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why are you so worried about Sophias personal standards. Shes still a feminist even if she wants someone to buy her dinner first. It just means she likes to be treated. She might feel exactly the same way if she was a gay man?

    Personally noone has to buy me dinner first. im just as happy to pay if im the one with the money at that point.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I reckon "feminism" is a word thrown about waaaay too much.

    IMO it comes down to two contrasting views - nature defines man (anti-feminist) against man defines nature (feminist).

    Whichever camp you belong to should, if thinking rationally and acting on your actual beliefs, affect how you want to be treated in the personal sphere.
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