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I think the issue is, that if you subscribe to the 'a life is a life' idea, then ANY baby, regardless of how they were concieved, is just as innocent and deserving to be given a chance at life as any other. It's not the babies fault that they were concieved in a violent, horrific way - so therefore, is this any more of a reason to abort than any other?
For the record I am absolutely pro-choice, just explaining what the thought process might be here.
So aborting because of an abortion, or because it would intefer with a career are still the same thing - the woman deciding to not give birth to a child for their own reasons.
No one is suggesting they don't understand why you'd make that choice, but are highlighting the fact that it does require choice, something you wouldn't have if abortion was illegal.
It's always not her fault when someone is raped.
then thats a claim of rape, not actual rape
very different thing
:yes:
That is what i was getting at too Sofie, I wasnt disagreeing with your right to choose an abortion after rape. I am also pro choice and think the woman should have the right to choose to terminate the pregnancy for any reason.
I've probably repeated myself a bit there, sorry.
Me or Sophia?
why would the abortion of a foetus from a rape, be any different to any other foetus, if you believe it is murder, it is still murder as that faetus hasn't done anything in itself - so that makes it a choice still
personally just to dig my nose into it - whilst the baby is inside the women it's being kept alive by her (when a kid is born prematurely up to 30 weeks, most either die or are severely disabled) so she has every right to an abortion of her choice - of course only up to a certain point apart from if it threatens the womens physical health
just because you wouldn't have an abortion personally, doesn't mean you have to inflict that decision upon someone else, and ultimately, it is almost entirely a subjective emotional issue so leave people to their choices
I think you can make a case for rape being seperate. Rape almost by definition means you had no choice in the matter. If its not rape you voluntarily had sex and have to accept the consequences, it may be a decision you regret (or at least you regret the consequences), but you made a choice and the anti-choice argument would be that 'why should the baby suffer because you're unwilling to accept the consequences of your voluntary decision?'
Not that I'm anti-choice, but its quiet at work and I feel like being argumentative.
But even then you voluntarily had sex - with (hopefully) the knowledge that the only 100% effective contraception is not having sex. To that extent you have to accept the consequences
True but even anti-abortion campaigners are making a moral choice of not the child's fault in any abortion vs not the woman's fault in rape.
Its probably also fair to day that hardline anti-choice campaigners would always be against abortion, even in the cases of rape and would just say if the woman doesn't want to have the baby she should give it up for abortion.
But that's a moot point anyway. At the end of the day, even in the case of rape, those who believe abortion is murder cannot possibly make distinctions based on how the 'child' was conceived. Regardless of not being the mother's fault the 'child' is innocent- even if the father is a rapist; and an abortion would be as much of a murder as that of a foetus conceived after consentual sex.
I see both sides of the story very much. I just think that if you are pro life then abortion shouldn't be acceptable for some reasons and not for others. How can someone say to me "yes, that's acceptable to me, I will have an abortion if I am raped but Vicky, I don't think your reasons are good enough, so no you will not" If you can bend your morals, don't criticise me for my choices.
Do yuo see what mean?
In both cases the foetus has no choice, but in one case the woman had no choice either. In the rape case you just acknowledge that in cases where neither foetus/stroke or mother had a choice in the conception, you put the mother first. For normal pregancy where the Mother did have a choice she has to accept the consequences of it
Though as I said hardline anti-choice wouldn't even allow rape as a reason
But that assumes that everyone who is anti-arbotion is absolutely hardline and says its always wrong. But in reality we know that people have different gradiations of when they think abortion is wrong these range from abortion being alright up until point of delivery to those who think its never right within any circumstances.
Its quite coherent in my view to say that 'I'm anti-abortion in most cases, but in certain cases where the mother had no choice herself to have sex we should not force her to have the baby, but if she went and had sex willingly she's got to accept that sometimes sex results in preganancy'
I'm not sure your analogy holds up, as it never acceptable for a man to rape a woman and she is never to blame for his actions. However if she voluntary shagged him on thge first date, it takes two to tango.
No absolutely see what you mean and in my defence I have to say I'm arguing a case I'm not particually in agreement with.
I'm guessing the original thing of this came from Sophia with when abortion is or is not allowed. But to put it on its head she could be seen as arguing from a limited pro-choice agenda, rather than always being anti abortion.
I would say I'm basically pro-choice, in that I think that there should be no real limits on abortion up until about 20 weeks, but after that I think that choice isn't absolute and the later after that it becomes the more the rights of the mother need to be balanced with (insert choice of term here) and that as the baby develops there becomes less and less reason why abortion should be allowed.
I suppose apart from extreme pro or anti-choice most people in this country would accept abortion should be legal in some circumstances and not in others, but we may disagree what those might be.