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baby's rights versus women's rights..

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
The abortion debate has been consistently phrased as one of baby's rights versus women's rights.. I apologize if I've started a discussion that's been had before but I've never come across a discussion on these issues on thesite and I'm very curious to hear what people think. :chin: I would fall on being a pro-lifer.. for me, abortion is tantamount to murder.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i dont think you worded your post very well. i think relating abortion to murder is very shit. just a point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And to be honest, although it's fine for this to be debated again, you can't have done any real search since it comes up incredibily often.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What 'baby' would this be? :confused:

    What is this 'murder' you speak of? Who's being murdered? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest it might be better to be upfront with what your saying. If your saying you don't believe a foetus is a child say so, if you don't believe abortion is murder, say so, starting off being sarky is going to lead to this descending in agression and insults - so please try to actually outline your arguements from the start.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What's the point Aladdin? Let them do the search, read the threads, we've done this to death.

    It's an entirely subjective situation, either you think that the baby is real and alive, or you think that the foetus/embryo isn't. Either way you essentially weigh up the potential value there against what the woman wants.

    Are we done now?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fine by me, to be honest the OP is a bit suspicious, specially where it says the poster couldn't find any debates on the issue on the site.

    *leaves discussion*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Plenty of topics come up regularly, if you don't want to be involved in a debate you've been involved in before that's fine, but there's no need to try and exclude new users from talking about similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    What is this 'muder' you speak of? Who's being murdered? :confused:

    This is what I don't understand. I had this debate on another forum a few weeks ago or so, anf despite me constantly explaining my reasons, I constantly got attacked for my views on abortion. (bearing in mind I'm the only girl there and apparantely men don't have a say when it comes to abortion)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Plenty of topics come up regularly, if you don't want to be involved in a debate you've been involved in before that's fine, but there's no need to try and exclude new users from talking about similar.
    That was never my intention Jim. I haven't tried to exclude anyone including the opening poster.

    Perhaps I was a bit cynical but my comments were meant to get the opening poster to explain in more detail how is it that they think there is a baby involved in all this, or how is it possible to murder a non-person. At the end of the day those are emotionally charged statements that are regarded as wholly inaccurate by a great many people including the scientific and medical professions, and if anyone is to make such claims they can expect to be challenged or asked to explain in more detail how can they see abortion as murder.

    So hgnian, no offence meant earlier. I don't believe a forming group of cells totally dependent of the host for survival can be considered a human being or a baby. But even if I did, I also believe the final decision should always be with the mother-to-be. It's her body, her choice, and she should not be pressurised (let alone demonised) for any decision she makes.

    What do you think about that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it true that the father can't actually have a say in abortion? Meaning that the mother can just abort the baby even if the father wants to keep it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I certainly hope it's true.

    No doubt some people think differently but I cannot think of anything more nauseating than a woman wanting to have an abortion but not being allowed to do so because the father wants to have the baby.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its always an explosive debate abortion.

    Personally, I think if the mother wants her baby, well and good... but if she doesn't (for whatever reason) then for the sake of the child, she should be able to abort the fetus.

    I hear a lot of people who are against abortion say "It's murdering a child"
    but thousands of children die every day because they can't get enough to eat or clean water to drink. Surely those people who feel the need to champion the rights of children would be better directing their energy at getting poverty ended in Africa?

    The woman who birthed me didn't want me and gave me up at a few months old. Her family were Catholics and so abortion was out.
    I grew up in foster homes (some bad and some worse) and I've felt alone all my life.
    And there have been times when I've wished I was never born.

    Forcing a woman to become a mother - or to give up her child after birth, is cruel to both lives involved.

    If you really want to save a child - adopt a middle eastern/or african orphan and give them a safe and peaceful home.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am pro choice in that I do not believe any woman should be forced to give birth to a child they do not want.

    Saying that though I think that some abortions are carried out far too late in the pregnancy, I don't think the current time frame is in line with medical developments.

    For me that is the issue which should be discussed in abortion debates. Thats just my view though and I realise many people find termination at any time "murder".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not too sure I agree with being able to abort a baby if a woman doesn't want it. However, I understand why some people have said this. There are only 3 reasons why I'd abort a baby and not wanting it isn't one of them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    Not too sure I agree with being able to abort a baby if a woman doesn't want it. However, I understand why some people have said this. There are only 3 reasons why I'd abort a baby and not wanting it isn't one of them.

    Looking at it from the other side - if one of the 3 reasons did apply, how would you feel if you still had to go through with the pregnancy and birth?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    Looking at it from the other side - if one of the 3 reasons did apply, how would you feel if you still had to go through with the pregnancy and birth?

    Not too sure really.

    Anyway, the 3 reasons are:
    - Rape
    - If my life was to be put in some sort of danger (whether this is during or after the pregnancy)
    - If the baby's life was in danger or they had a severe disability which meant that they wouldn't have a decent quality of life
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    Not too sure really.


    - Rape
    -
    as horrible this situation may be, that reason is still because you don't want it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote:
    as horrible this situation may be, that reason is still because you don't want it

    would you bring up a rapists baby?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote:
    as horrible this situation may be, that reason is still because you don't want it

    Thats what I was going to say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    would you bring up a rapists baby?

    I don't think thats what she was getting at and neither was I. Its just you said you don't think you agree with people having abortions if its because the mother doesnt want it but yet you would have an abortion because you wouldnt want a child who is the product of rape. Its the same thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think thats what she was getting at and neither was I. Its just you said you don't think you agree with people having abortions if its because the mother doesnt want it but yet you would have an abortion because you wouldnt want a child who is the product of rape. Its the same thing.

    How is it the same thing?:confused: What I mean is, I wouldn't abort a baby if it wasn't what me & my partner wanted, (I mean if the baby wasn't what we wanted) but if I was raped by a complete stranger, then I would abort the baby.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    How is it the same thing?:confused:

    Well because the child is a child you (as a mother) do not want, I don't really see why because its a rapists child its any different. I'm sorry if that isnt what you meant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have edited my post in an attempt to explain what I'm trying to say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I’m pro choice and I have had an abortion. I was 18 years old and I couldn’t give the baby the life I would want to give it plus there was so much I wanted to do, that if I’m honest, a baby stood in my way. I don’t regret my choice but there isn’t a day that goes bye that I don’t think about my baby and what it would have been like, I do feel like I’ve taken a life and I do sometimes feel like a killer. I feel like I don’t have the right to say “my baby” but My baby was 19 weeks, I denied being pregnant at first and when I went to the docs I was around 13 weeks but it took quite some time to get an appointment.
    I do feel guilty but I don’t regret.
    What makes me sick is women that use abortion as a contraceptive. If I got caught now, I think would have it as I’m older and mature, I think I could cope even though I don’t particularly want a baby at this stage in my life.
    Women should have the choice but I also think it needs to be monitored for people abusing it, contraception advice needs to be drilled into us from a young age and we should receive counselling before and after. I think I was offered counselling after, I can’t quite remember.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sophia wrote:
    Because you don't want the child, because it's the product of rape. Not really any different from not wanting it for any other reason.

    You mean you'd alright telling your child that their father is a rapist?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    would you bring up a rapists baby?

    You never know until you are in that situation but my choice right now would be not a chance in hell
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