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FAO those who think Israel's actions have been justified & proportioned

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    They intensionally target Hezbollah.

    Amnesty International would disagree with you.
    Civilians have been targeted in Lebanon by the Israeli Defence Forces and in northern Israel by Hizbullah leaving hundreds dead.
    http://web.amnesty.org/pages/lebanonisrael-action-eng
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Hezbollah aren't "hiding weapons" in a neighbourhood in Beirut. So shut it and stop lying, or give us some evidence.
    Yes they are.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke stop trolling and answer the question, do you know why hezbollah were formed?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    I don't support killing innocents that is why I don't support Hezbollah whom publicies this, they do actually kill innocents deliberately this ison the BBc website somewhere.

    No it is targeting Hezbollah.
    No. It's destroying entire neighbourhoolds and entire villages. Hezbollah doesn't fucking live cosily and happily together in an entire neighbourhood. Does it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Yes they are.
    Bullshit they are. Stop lying.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Quit avoiding the subject. Israel does target and kill civilians on purpose. Admit it or shut it.
    Hezbollah is doing just that aren't they?
    Aladdin wrote:
    As much as a third apparently.

    And who told you I was a hezbollah supporter?

    Not that it matter if I were. You are happily admitting here to everyone that you are a supporter of child murderers and war criminals!
    I'm happy to admit I do not support Hezbollah which do intentionaally kill innocents.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke stop trolling and answer the question, do you know why hezbollah were formed?
    Do you know Israel is defending it's self?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Hezbollah is doing just that aren't they?
    Who say they didn't? You are the one pretending Israelis are any different.

    So stop changing the subject and admit Israel is also murdering civilians.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Who say they didn't?
    Never heard you say it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Do you know Israel is defending it's self?

    Yes, much like the USA "defended" itself against those Afghanistan farmers and peasants afer 9/11 :rolleyes: What a plank, and you still didnt answer the question, quelle surprise.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Luke, are you deliberately being a stupid twat or what?
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    luke88 wrote:
    Wishing to wipe a country off the map? Wishing to harm innocent Israelis and Jews? To fire rockets in a deliberate attempt to provoke war...

    Hezbollah saints? You must be having a laugh!

    Wishing.

    I don't see them actually doing it. Unlike, SHOCK HORROR, Israel.

    And Luke, do you care to answer the question: Do you know why Hezbollah were formed? DO YOU?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    So you're trying to say there are no Jewish Supremacists in this entire earth? Utter bollocks in itself. There are many.

    I posted the question...

    "Are you saying Israelis or Jews in general believe they are the 'master race'?"
    turlough wrote:
    In a lot of cases, yes. Especially non-secular Jews.

    And as well as being bollocks that's incredibly offensive to religious Jews. There are of course extremist Jews, I don't know whether you'd call them Jewish supremacists but some Israeli settlers might be described as such. Although, Zionism is not necessarily interdependent upon religious Judaism. However, in Israel as pollsters have frequently shown the settlers do not have the support of most Israelis. Most Israelis recognise the need for withdrawals from the Disputed Territories, Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza had the support of the Israeli population and Olmert was elected on a platform of making further compromises. (The election of Hamas and subsequent events however make such withdrawals seem unlikely for the moment however). But supporting the settlers doesn't translate to views of racial superiority...

    The only Jewish organisation I can think of meanwhile that could be described as supremacist is the Jewish Defence League. And they hardly amount to a 'lot of cases' - they've been condemned and ostracised by the Jewish community and mainstream organisations long ago. (And they remain a handful of activists in New York and little more).

    There is no religious basis for Jews to believe that they are the 'master race' - it's puzzling that you think that is true in 'a lot of cases' - especially so when it is highlighted that Judaism is not a race. :rolleyes: Is it beyond you to provide some instances of these apparently prevalent beliefs in the Jewish community? I don't dispute the fact that there are extremists and loons that happen to be Jewish and for some religion is perhaps a feature of their extremism but it's untrue (and a sign of a sinister agenda I fear) to claim beliefs of racial superiority are widespread amongst Jews. I don't know where your knowledge of Judaism comes from but you're very misinformed. I can only hope the inaccuracies of your views, like your previous outbursts of anti-Semitism are based on ignorance rather than malice towards a minority community.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Throw the Jew down the well
    So my country can free...

    Hezbollahs new chant?

    Yes, alot of Jews in Israel oppose the Government. But if they really cared that much about the lives of innocent Lebonese, and how thier country looks to the world, they'd take proper action instead of poncing about with protests. There are ways to get results.

    I think most of Israel is complacent, like the rest of the world seems to be. Fact is, we can't take tihs approach. We let our Governments represent us - and if we keep fucking with the Mid East, they'll only take shit for so long before the big guns come out.

    Much like the Iranians let the Mad Mullah represent them, and become cast in his shadow, creating hate for Iran in general. Fact is, most Iranians probably are nice folk. Americans living there seem to think so and get on with them well.

    The Bush administration would have you think they are all clones of the leader and must be killed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hezbollah is a state within a state, Hezbollah declared war upon a neighbouring state and initiated hostilities. The international community through the UN had previously pledged to disarm Hezbollah. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 in the hope that it would appease Hezbollah. It didn't and Hezbollah has went from strength to strength since Israel withdrew. For as long as Hezbollah is armed and active Israel is not safe from missile attacks and incursions and until Hezbollah is dismantled Israel's borders are not secure. Israel's leaders have a duty to protect the Israeli people, if Israel wasn't fighting Hezbollah Israel's leaders would be betraying the people of Israel. Israel is not deliberately targeting innocent people but Hezbollah's tactic of operating from civilian areas makes it impossible for Israel to fight Hezbollah without civilians being affected. A lasting peace requires a buffer zone to secure Israel's borders, the disarming of Hezbollah and the restoration of Lebanese authority throughout the country. But meh, why let facts get in the way of yet another anti-Israel wankfest.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Double post, please call in severall airstrikes.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Hezbollah declared war upon a neighbouring state and initiated hostilities.

    :lol:

    Btw, I am not anti-Israel, I am against this expansionist policy scarily reminiscent of "Lebensraum".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hezbollah is a state within a state,

    Well, no, not quite. In some places Hezbollah has been taking on some of the state's role. But it participates in the Lebanese parliament and has support from all sections of Lebanese society. So to call it a state within a state is far too a simplistic reading of the situation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Israel is not deliberately targeting innocent people

    So you are privy to information that Amnesty International aren't then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Contrary to Dis's ongoing displays of unquestioned regurgitation of Israeli propaganda and lies (all in the effort to maintain its "perpetual victim" justifications for unmitigated war crimes and crimes against humanity) let us go back and examine the truth of the captured IDF soldier(s) and where exactly they were at the time of their legitimate capture. It isn't the fabricated narrative eminating from the Tel Aviv/Washington neocon spinmeisters, thats for sure...

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/israeli_solders.html

    I suggest those who care about the truth spend some time examining the quite connected and ongoing provocations by Israel toward Southern Lebanon since they were forced out in 2000. Some detailed examination of the myths that have been implanted in the public psyche by mainstream collusionist media concerning the 24 years of brutal occupation of Southern Lebanon by Israeli forces will also provide a much greater understanding of present events.

    An excellent firsthand commentator to pay attention to if one has an interest in cutting through the Israeli state and military propaganda is Jonathan Cook. The following excerpt from a recent article is a prime example of the reality not reported by mainstream media about Hezbollah attacks...
    Although we should not romanticise Hizbullah, equally we should not be quick to demonise it either -- unless there is convincing evidence suggesting it has been firing on civilian targets. The problem is that Israel has been abusing very successfully its military censorship rules governing both its domestic media and the reporting of visiting foreign journalists to prevent meaningful discussion of what Hizbullah has been trying to hit inside Israel.

    I live in northern Israel in the Arab city of Nazareth. A week into the war we were hit by Hizbullah rockets that killed two young brothers. The attack, it was widely claimed, was proof either that Hizbullah was indiscriminately targeting civilians (so indiscriminately, the argument went, that it was hitting fellow Arabs) or that the Shiite militia was so committed to a fanatical war against the Judeo-Christian world that it was happy to kill Nazareth’s Christian Arabs too. The latter claim could be easily dismissed: it depended both on a “clash of civilisations” philosophy not shared by Hizbullah and on the mistaken assumption that Nazareth is a Christian city, when in fact, as is well-known to Hizbullah, Nazareth has a convincing Muslim majority.

    But to anyone living in Nazareth, it was clear the rocket attack on the city was not indiscriminate either. It was a mistake -- something Nasrallah quickly confirmed in one of his televised speeches. The real target of the strike was known to Nazarenes: close by the city are a military weapons factory and a large army camp. Hizbullah knows the locations of these military targets because this year, as was widely reported in the Israeli media at the time, it managed to fly an unmanned drone over the Galilee photographing the area in detail -- employing the same spying techniques used for many years by Israel against Lebanon.

    One of Hizbullah’s first rocket attacks after the outbreak of hostilities -- after Israel went on a bombing offensive by blitzing targets across Lebanon -- was on a kibbutz overlooking the border with Lebanon. Some foreign correspondents noted at the time (though given Israel’s press censorship laws I cannot confirm) that the rocket strike targeted a top-secret military traffic control centre built into the Galilee’s hills.

    There are hundreds of similar military installations next to or inside Israel’s northern communities. Some distance from Nazareth, for example, Israel has built a large weapons factory virtually on top of an Arab town -- so close to it, in fact, that the factory’s perimeter fence is only a few metres from the main building of the local junior school. There have been reports of rockets landing close to that Arab community.

    How these kind of attacks are being unfairly presented in the Israeli and foreign media was highlighted recently when it was widely reported that a Hizbullah rocket had landed “near a hospital” in a named Israeli city, not the first time that such a claim has been made over the past few weeks. I cannot name the city, again because of Israel’s press censorship laws and because I also want to point out that very “near” that hospital is an army camp. The media suggested that Hizbullah was trying to hit the hospital, but it is also more than possible it was trying to strike -- and may have struck -- the army camp.

    Israel’s military censorship laws are therefore allowing officials to represent, unchallenged, any attack by Hizbullah as an indiscriminate strike against civilian targets.

    http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0269.htm#Top

    For more of his insightful reporting and details about the man his site and archives can be found here...

    http://www.jkcook.net/
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I always thought they were captured in Lebonese territory ... seems I was right!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So that's the myth that Israel hadn't started this war debunked.

    Something to keep in mind next time we hear the tired old cries about 'defending oneself' and 'not having started this conflict'.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    So you are privy to information that Amnesty International aren't then?


    Are AI privy to information the rest of us aren't?

    Now there's no doubt that civilians have been killed, but unless AI have got people inside the IDF feeding them classified information there's no way to know whether the killing of civilians is deliberate, recklessness, faulty intelligence or just poor targetting.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Are AI privy to information the rest of us aren't?

    Now there's no doubt that civilians have been killed, but unless AI have got people inside the IDF feeding them classified information there's no way to know whether the killing of civilians is deliberate, recklessness, faulty intelligence or just poor targetting.

    I agree but is it REALLY important which of those four adjectives,if any, is the truth ?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you guys really taking ANYTHING written on whatreallyhappened.com seriously?
    Cause yeah, that's what definitely constitutes a valid source :yeees:

    Just to give you guys an idea... the guy in my class who said that the 300+ e-mails awaiting in his inbox were not junkmail but contracts and secret documents from both the russians and the americans who were eager for him to share information about all his inventions, which included a u-boat and a laser so strong that it could blind the steering system in flights, was the type of guy who'd frequently visit whatreallyhappened.com during lessons :rolleyes:

    My ass says that I'm queen of the universe. Now go ahead believe it. Must be right.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So by that logic, we must go exhonerate Saddam for the likelyhood that he didn't target the Kurds of Halabja but quite possibly missed hitting Iranian force incursions into Iraq through Kurdish territory, eh?

    The overwhelming purposed targetting of entire neighbourhoods, civilian infrastructure and more so family vehicles fleeing Southern Lebanese towns and villages as allegedly ordered to do "ahead of time" by the IDF is clear enough demonstration of criminal intent, NQA.

    Add to that the publically recorded proclamations of senior IDF military figures concerning the intent to "set back the clock 20 years in Lebanon" and the deliberate nature of these latest Israeli crimes against humanity becomes all the more unmistakable.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    that's what definitely constitutes a valid source

    We understand that the only information you consider valid is whatever you are spoonfed by Israeli state approved and filtered sources, Jacq. Don't let reality pierce your cozy ideological bubble, by all means.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Are AI privy to information the rest of us aren't?

    Now there's no doubt that civilians have been killed, but unless AI have got people inside the IDF feeding them classified information there's no way to know whether the killing of civilians is deliberate, recklessness, faulty intelligence or just poor targetting.
    The destruction of an entire Beirut neighbourhood can only be one thing: a deliberate action to kill civilians.

    There is absolutely no other explanation for it. Whatsoever.

    Notice how even the Israel government apologists have failed to come up with an explanation every time it's mentioned to them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    So that's the myth that Israel hadn't started this war debunked.

    :lol: You're taking whatreallyhappened.com as a serious source...What next? Alex Jones? David Icke? Those that hate Israel like yourself and Clan don't exactly strengthen your argument by lending support to the fabricated rantings of conspiracy theorist fruitcakes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We understand that the only information you consider valid is whatever you are spoonfed by Israeli state approved and filtered sources, Jacq. Don't let reality pierce your cozy ideological bubble, by all means.

    I understand that while I at least have a criteria for my sources, then you have time after time presented highly questionable sources.
    You pride yourself with being of high intellect and academic merit, yet you don't even adhere to the most simple of rules concerning sourcing.
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