Home General Chat
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

National Rail

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
edited January 2023 in General Chat
Are useless. Discuss.

I went to visit my girlfriend in Swansea for a bit. My train from London Paddington, having had to go into London in the first place cos Aylesbury is the arse end of nowhere, was 45 minutes slow due to being stuck behind a slower train apparantly. The same happens on the way back. Cant these people keep simple timetables?! If id had to pay full whack the journey would have cost me £70. But by buying 2 singles it cost me £29, wheres the logic in that? Is it just to rip people off?

They made my trip on the London Underground seem the height of time keeping.
Post edited by JustV on
«1

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Any services travelling along the Great Western mainline recently have been appauling. Took my dad 5 hours to get from Reading to Newport the other day because of broken down trains, signal failures, slow moving trains etc. Cost him £140 for that ticket. Unbelievably expensive.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Four things I hate about British trains:

    - They're so expensive.
    - There are so many different types of tickets. I saw an article in the paper in December that listed 45 different fares from London to Glasgow. It's confusing trying to work out what you should be buying to get the best deal.
    - A single doesn't cost half the price of a return. Where's the sense in that?
    - They're overcrowded and often don't run on time.

    Give me German efficiency or Russian rock-bottom prices any day.
  • Options
    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Renzo wrote:
    Are useless. Discuss.

    Wrong.
    The majority of trains I get on are on time - and I probably travel on a hell of a lot more trains than you. Maybe its just wales?
    Renzo wrote:
    If id had to pay full whack the journey would have cost me £70. But by buying 2 singles it cost me £29, wheres the logic in that? Is it just to rip people off?
    To encourage people to travel and to book in advance.
    It isn't to rip people off.
    wildchild wrote:
    Four things I hate about British trains:

    - They're so expensive.
    - There are so many different types of tickets. I saw an article in the paper in December that listed 45 different fares from London to Glasgow. It's confusing trying to work out what you should be buying to get the best deal.
    - A single doesn't cost half the price of a return. Where's the sense in that?
    - They're overcrowded and often don't run on time.

    Give me German efficiency or Russian rock-bottom prices any day.

    - I dont think they are - do you have a railcard or something?
    - The cheapest options are normally the best bet.
    - To encourage people to use return tickets.
    - Over 80% of trains run on time. I wouldn't call that 'often'.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote:
    Wrong.
    The majority of trains I get on are on time - and I probably travel on a hell of a lot more trains than you. Maybe its just wales?

    If Reading and Swindon and Bristol are in Wales which i beleive they are not.
  • Options
    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Renzo wrote:
    If Reading and Swindon and Bristol are in Wales which i beleive they are not.
    Swansea is though.

    Aside, how do you know the slower train was delayed by fault of the railway? Not that easy to run a railway to timetable when someone has just jumped in front of a train for example...
  • Options
    littlemissylittlemissy Posts: 9,972 Supreme Poster
    I must admit that in the last 2 or so years I have travelled a lot by train and generally I have been pleased. Every so often there is a problem, but you expect that - you would get the same on motorways, planes being delayed etc etc etc. But generally they are quite reliable.

    I much prefer the train to coach or bus too.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    GNER trains are normally ok but so EXPENSIVE. i swear they just make up the price as they go along, depending on how nice their feeling. i can go n it'll be £20 return London-Newcastle, n i buy the same ticket n its like £90 or something stupid like that :grump:
  • Options
    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    dancin_k8i wrote:
    GNER trains are normally ok but so EXPENSIVE. i swear they just make up the price as they go along, depending on how nice their feeling. i can go n it'll be £20 return London-Newcastle, n i buy the same ticket n its like £90 or something stupid like that :grump:
    Thats because some tickets are advance cheap tickets.

    If you book them far enough in advance it'll be £20. Turn up on the day and it will be £90. Simple supply and demand.

    I've managed to get Leeds - London return in August for £14, I did book it 2 months in advance though!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote:
    Swansea is though.

    Aside, how do you know the slower train was delayed by fault of the railway? Not that easy to run a railway to timetable when someone has just jumped in front of a train for example...

    Im sure if someone had i would have heard it on the news. And its unlikely it would happen in the first place let alone on the same journey but backwards twice.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Train companies sell discount tickets as singles, in order to create more flexibility. As discount tickets have different price bands depending on when you travel and how far in advance you book, this means you can always get the cheapest price band. This is also why two singles are often cheaper than a return- bargain tickets are not sold as returns, so the cheapest return will be the cheapest standard fare.

    As JsT says, over 80% of trains arrive on time or within the allowable range. But people need to be realistic- if you drive long-distance and arrive 20 minutes later than expected, nobody bats an eyelid, so why is it different for the railways?

    The recent heat has caused issues with time-keeping. Oddly enough people don't complain about the melting roads causing emergency roadworks, but when its a rail thats buckled in the heat, its all about incompetence.

    As for sometimes being placed behind slower trains, that sometimes happens, through no fault of National Rail or the TOC. That's the way life is, just as sometimes that caravan pulls in front of you on the road.

    Some train fares are expensive, and if you are travelling as a big group its nearly always cheaper to drive, but if you factor in the real cost of driving its not so expensive really. But because roads are paid for by income tax, not by use, then the cost of them isn't noted.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    Im sure if someone had i would have heard it on the news. And its unlikely it would happen in the first place let alone on the same journey but backwards twice.

    You wouldn't, any more than you hear of 95% of car related deaths on the local news.

    The slower train will have been on the line for a reason. Perhaps the signaller who does that job every day would understand how to signal slightly better than yourself, non?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok fine. You win. They're not that bad i just dont get how both times timetabled trains could hold it up. Very annoying when you have to catch a train in London. At least Chiltern Railways are competent but then all they have to go is go from Aylesbury to London on my line. Jesus, high horses or what. I still resent extornoniate prices for lacklustre service. In retail you wouldnt want to buy an item that was broken would you.

    Great Western to Wales or the West country however have been making excuses every time ive used them.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote:
    Thats because some tickets are advance cheap tickets.

    If you book them far enough in advance it'll be £20. Turn up on the day and it will be £90. Simple supply and demand.

    I've managed to get Leeds - London return in August for £14, I did book it 2 months in advance though!

    Ahh :chin: The secret has been revealed...
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Personally, I say yes.

    The worst company in existence though is still First Great Eastern/One/Whatever they call themselves now, as it seems to vary between train and bus, as to wether it has the new livery or not yet. :lol:

    They are a bunch of disorganised, unhelpful generally, wankers.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    Ok fine. You win.

    *beam*
    They're not that bad i just dont get how both times timetabled trains could hold it up.

    According to the timetable they wouldn't.

    But many main lines are running at capacity, so it doesn't take much (a disabled person boarding at a local station, two yobs refusing to pay, etc) to cause things to bank up.

    Hardly National Rail's fault.
    Very annoying when you have to catch a train in London.

    You wouldn't drive somewhere important and only leave 20 minutes, so why should it be like that on the train?
    I still resent extornoniate prices for lacklustre service.

    I defy you to drive from Cardiff to London and back for £20.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JsT wrote:
    - I dont think they are - do you have a railcard or something?

    Yeah I have a Young Person's, but even so it costs me £5 day return between my home and the next nearest town, a 20 minute journey. And if you don't want to return that day you can only buy singles at £3.50 each. I think that's expensive.
    JsT wrote:
    - To encourage people to use return tickets.

    But what's the point encouraging people to use return tickets? Why is it any better to travel from A to B, rather than from A to B to C and then back to A?
    Kermit wrote:
    As JsT says, over 80% of trains arrive on time or within the allowable range. But people need to be realistic- if you drive long-distance and arrive 20 minutes later than expected, nobody bats an eyelid, so why is it different for the railways?

    German and Swiss rail authorities manage to run more than 80% of trains on time. Why can't Britain?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    wildchild wrote:
    Yeah I have a Young Person's, but even so it costs me £5 day return between my home and the next nearest town, a 20 minute journey. And if you don't want to return that day you can only buy singles at £3.50 each. I think that's expensive.

    £5 is about right- it'd cost you that to drive and park.

    That's how much things cost.
    But what's the point encouraging people to use return tickets? Why is it any better to travel from A to B, rather than from A to B to C and then back to A?

    It encourages train use as most people travel in both directions, at least at some point.

    And as I say, the way discount fares are calculated often makes it look much worse than it is.
    German and Swiss rail authorities manage to run more than 80% of trains on time. Why can't Britain?

    They don't run as many trains over there.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fact is trains are still expensive in comparison to other railways around the world, stupidly so in some cases.

    20% late is still one fo the worst records in europe, and we are paying more for the priviledge.

    How on earth we are paying more ins ubsidies for a privates et of companys for worse service than when they were run by the government i don't know.

    As for the comment being used to being late by cars, cars have a hell of a lot more variables to account for than trains where they have a central control room routing the trains various places.

    And if you ahd a listen i think the people stuck in traffic becuase of melting roads might have had a few less than pleasant words for what they thought of the situation :p

    The system we do ahve is fairly good but we are paying over the odds for what we do get which is the annoying thing.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Daibach wrote:
    Any services travelling along the Great Western mainline recently have been appauling. Took my dad 5 hours to get from Reading to Newport the other day because of broken down trains, signal failures, slow moving trains etc. Cost him £140 for that ticket. Unbelievably expensive.


    What I keep wondering is why do we even need signals in this day and age?

    They always seem to break down so why use them?

    We can pin point the location of objects to within a few metres using GPS and relay that information wirelessly to the cab of a train driver, so why rely on something 100's of years old!!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yet another bad day yesterday. Morning trains cancelled and badly delayed. Evening not much better :grump:

    A few years ago I had to travel by train every day to college and back, and although there were the occasional screwups - which are to be expected, things were generally ok.

    Now, i travel to work by train every day, and in the past 4 weeks, I don't think i've travelled on a train thats been on time. Now i can understand the occasional journey being delayed, but to have nearly 30 consecutive journeys delayed (and/or cancelled) in the space of 4 weeks is an absolute shambles. Don't get me started on the price of Season tickets. Its cheaper for me to buy £10 returns every day i'm in the office than to buy a season - madness.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A week's season ticket is the same price as 4 returns, which seems fair enough to me. If you're only in the office 3 days its cheaper to buy returns, especially as you don't get railcard discounts on seasons.

    Trains are no more expensive than driving, and the same variables apply on the railway as they do on the roads. It's all well and good having a central signal box, but that doesn't make the failed train move any quicker, it doesn't get the disabled lady off the stopping service sooner, and it doesn't remove the stone-throwing chavs from the lineside.

    As for subsidy, the roads get an infinitely higher subsidy than the trains ever did and ever will. Roads are apparently necessary though, so nobody cares about the real cost of them. If people were forced to pay the real cost of the road every time they drove rail travel would seem bargaintastic in comparison.

    Europe is not a fair comparison as even French mainlines get a service every two hours. Our main lines have a train service on them every 15 minutes.

    London's Docklands railways uses computer-controlled trains, and they fail too. That's life, deal with it.

    Point is, if someone gets stuck in a jam for an hour because of a failed truck, they don't complain about it, and don't blame the world and his wife. If a train dares to be 30 seconds late, no matter how far its travelled, then its a national disgrace. get some perspective- if you are late for something because your train was 5 minutes late, then you didn't set off on time.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    A week's season ticket is the same price as 4 returns, which seems fair enough to me. If you're only in the office 3 days its cheaper to buy returns, especially as you don't get railcard discounts on seasons.

    Actually, in this case, a week season ticket is £44.50, where as 4 returns are £39.60. Please note that although i have a railcard, its useless before 10am so i might as well not have it. I've got to gurantee im going to be in the office all 5 days of the week before it makes a season ticket worth while - a very rare occurrence.

    Kermit wrote:
    if you are late for something because your train was 5 minutes late, then you didn't set off on time.

    In the majority of cases in the past few weeks, 5 minutes has been the minimum delay.

    Take yesterday for example, my train leaves at 7.47, arrives in Cardiff at 8.29 and i get into work at 8.50. Plenty of time to start work. This train - cancelled. Next train leaves at 8.12, arrives in Cardiff at 8.55, i get into work at 9.15. 15 minutes late, but managable. This train - 20 minutes late and crawls to Cardiff. I get into work after 10.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I practically live on trains and I've got some cracking deals. £11 from Manchester to St Neots via London.And that was booked 5 days before. The route that really annoys me is going to exeter its always expensive. I generally haven't had any big problems on trains. And I have been on every route between Manchester and here, eg im going back up north today st neots-peterborough, peterborough-doncaster, doncaster-manchester. £35 return and I booked it two days ago. Cheap as chips. When I arrive in Manchester I'm sure I can tell you whether I still love trains.
  • Options
    littlemissylittlemissy Posts: 9,972 Supreme Poster
    Daibach wrote:
    Take yesterday for example, my train leaves at 7.47, arrives in Cardiff at 8.29 and i get into work at 8.50. Plenty of time to start work. This train - cancelled. Next train leaves at 8.12, arrives in Cardiff at 8.55, i get into work at 9.15. 15 minutes late, but managable. This train - 20 minutes late and crawls to Cardiff. I get into work after 10.

    I reckon then you are cutting it fine.

    In your situation I would always catch the earlier train, ie the one before the 7.47. You seem to know that there are delays etc on this train so why not do something about it?

    In rush hour one of the trains I used to get into Sheffield was *always* that few minutes late. A few minutes can make all the difference in the world. So I got the one before. That way, I would have time for a coffee or whatever and be sure of getting in on time instead of panicking because of a 5 or 10 minute delay.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I reckon then you are cutting it fine.

    In your situation I would always catch the earlier train, ie the one before the 7.47. You seem to know that there are delays etc on this train so why not do something about it?

    In rush hour one of the trains I used to get into Sheffield was *always* that few minutes late. A few minutes can make all the difference in the world. So I got the one before. That way, I would have time for a coffee or whatever and be sure of getting in on time instead of panicking because of a 5 or 10 minute delay.

    I can cope with a certain amount of delays... i.e. as long as i am in before 9:30 i can make up the time during my lunch break. That means that even if the 7:47 is late by 20/30 minutes i could still be ok. Its not exactly acceptable for me to have to sit outside of the office for an hour till it opens at half 8 just because Arriva can't run their services on time. Its bad enough i have to be up at half 6 every morning as it is without having to get up an hour earlier.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Daibach wrote:
    Actually, in this case, a week season ticket is £44.50, where as 4 returns are £39.60. Please note that although i have a railcard, its useless before 10am so i might as well not have it. I've got to gurantee im going to be in the office all 5 days of the week before it makes a season ticket worth while - a very rare occurrence.

    Oh diddums.

    A weekly season ticket is for commuters, and the ticket is between 4 and 5 times the standard day return. Monthly season tickets are cheaper again- perhaps you should consider one of those.

    Railcards are valid in commuter times, but are subject to a minimum fare because of supply and demand. The only ones that are are valid all the time are disabled ones. Fair enough, I'd say.

    As for cancellations and failures, they happen, especially in extreme weather conditions.

    If you are allowing 10 minutes then you are cutting it fine, especially as you know the timetable into Cardiff on a morning is unreliable due to capacity and weather issues. Either get the earlier train or quit whining, really.

    If you get tracks running at capacity you will get problems. Perhaps we should follow the continent's lead and only run a mainline train every 2 hours.
  • Options
    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Back on the punctuality I did some travelling today on a fair few different trains - no delays.

    Just as when I did my Rover in May - I got 38 different trains over 4 days, 0 cancellations. Biggest delay was a massive 9 minutes.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I got delayed by two hours on friday. serves me right for singing the praises of the trians in this country:grump:
  • Options
    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    I got delayed by two hours on friday. serves me right for singing the praises of the trians in this country:grump:
    The electric wires fell down - sods law really :p

    I'm sure you spent your two hours wisely :D
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes yes I did. Standing in the sunshine at Newark North Gate smoking. Not bad really :p
Sign In or Register to comment.