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Protein And Creatine (Bodybuilders Question)

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    I agree with you on protein intake. You dont need one gram per lb of body mass (even though I do, but I am a dirty bulker :razz: )

    You mentioned Joe Weider has admitted they are on steroids, he has known since the 50's that they were on steroids. The fact is not everyone has the genetics of a pro bb, so they wont get as big.

    Take a look at some natural bb like Layne Nortan & John Hansen, they have great genetics & there still natural. If they used steroids they would be ifbb pro's.

    I feel in that trap of thinking supplements were the ansew & the only thing that happened was my wallet went on a diet.

    Those guys might be all natural, but that John Hansen has to have one of the ugliest physiques i've ever seen. It's just so blown out and aesthetically unappealing. But, i'm not an advocate of body building anyway, well not in the traditional term of pumping iron to get as huge as possible that is. Strength training or adding some mass, yeah i'm into that, but i think people that big or 'developed' isn't cool. Not that i'm against it, just not something i particularly like.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    staxx wrote:
    Those guys might be all natural, but that John Hansen has to have one of the ugliest physiques i've ever seen. It's just so blown out and aesthetically unappealing. But, i'm not an advocate of body building anyway, well not in the traditional term of pumping iron to get as huge as possible that is. Strength training or adding some mass, yeah i'm into that, but i think people that big or 'developed' isn't cool. Not that i'm against it, just not something i particularly like.
    It isn't John Hansen's thought he has some of the best genetics known to man. If you or I had the same genetics as him then we would be massive just looking at a weight.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uprising wrote:
    What side effects do you speak of?

    I got cramps when I was loading (still dont know whether that was necessary) but that was probably because I drank and dehydrate myself when creatine makes your body need more water, not good.

    I know it can upset your stomach slightly but I've had no problems, I think whey is worse on your stomach than creatine mono... it makes me bloated like I've eated a 3 course meal in minutes. Which isn't suprising when you feel the weight of a pint of milk+the added whey.
    Varies from person to person. Cramps as you said is a contribute to dehydration. Kidney problems can occur also with dehydration. Stomach aches etc.

    Kre alkiline has zero side effects. Also the whey protein might be because you have a slight allergy to dairy. I also get bloated from milk.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    staxx wrote:
    If it's just your muscles filled with water, why do it? Considering the minute you stop taking it, you're going to deflate and all the bulk and size you have now is nothing but uncoordinated mass, with no real strength except for lifting heavier weights but is ultimately useless in everyday life, and the ability to lift those weights and have a huge physique will just disappear when you stop taking what you're taking. Take the longer route and build a physique with real strength and real musculature that won't leave you just because you stop taking some supplemental shit
    The muscle is made up over over 70% water. Creatine works by drawing more water into the muscle by increasing cell volume. And no if you carry on drinking loads of water & eating & training, then you will loose a minimum amount of water.

    TBH I dont think you have the first clue about hypertrophy. Creatine is found in meat also, should he stop eating that? If you knew about muscle tissue at all then you will know that the only time one deflates is when that stop training & eating.

    No offense.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    The muscle is made up over over 70% water. Creatine works by drawing more water into the muscle by increasing cell volume. And no if you carry on drinking loads of water & eating & training, then you will loose a minimum amount of water.

    TBH I dont think you have the first clue about hypertrophy. Creatine is found in meat also, should he stop eating that? If you knew about muscle tissue at all then you will know that the only time one deflates is when that stop training & eating.

    No offense.

    I'm aware the muscle is made up of over 70% water. And yes, i'm aware of how creatine works by increasing cell volume - my point is it's pretty much fake, as soon as you stop doing it you deflate again because the cells reduce. Rather than actually making the muscle grow, it expands the cell, there's a difference.

    And John Hansen, sure he has genetics that allow him to be that way, most of us could never look that way. But, he still has to train really hard to get a body like that
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry I am being picky.

    There is a study floating around somewhere on the net about 28 days of creatine use can lead to a perminant stretch in the muscle.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Sorry I am being picky.

    There is a study floating around somewhere on the net about 28 days of creatine use can lead to a perminant stretch in the muscle.

    The problem with that is, studies are rarely objective and more often than not show whatever the researchers want them to show. And, a permanent stretch? Still sounds a lot different to a muscle getting bigger due to actual strength gains
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    staxx wrote:
    The problem with that is, studies are rarely objective and more often than not show whatever the researchers want them to show. And, a permanent stretch? Still sounds a lot different to a muscle getting bigger due to actual strength gains
    That doesn't make sense. A muscle is made up of mostly water, creatine will stretch that muscle & keep it stretched. By carrying on training, drinking & eating etc. there should be no reason why it should shrink.

    Strength gains are not the only thing that builds muscle. Training is only a stimulant, where a diet & rest is what builds the muscle.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    That doesn't make sense. A muscle is made up of mostly water, creatine will stretch that muscle & keep it stretched. By carrying on training, drinking & eating etc. there should be no reason why it should shrink.

    Strength gains are not the only thing that builds muscle. Training is only a stimulant, where a diet & rest is what builds the muscle.

    Right. But i think you've missed my point - using stuff like creatine makes your muscles bigger, but not necessarily stronger. So pumping yourself up and becoming huge, but without having the proportionate strength. That may be fine to some people, it depends on your reasons for training.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Here's a shocker, I argree with HIT's points above.

    Of course creatine can help produce keepable gains.

    It promotes water retention in the muscles, water retention in the muscles makes them stronger meaning you can then shift more iron - what happens when you lift heavier weights? You get bigger and stronger.

    When you come off as HIT said you will lose the water, so some slight size, but you will look more defined and this will give the impression of being a more muscular person anyway
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    is it bad to spread creatine on your shreddies?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    staxx wrote:
    Right. But i think you've missed my point - using stuff like creatine makes your muscles bigger, but not necessarily stronger. So pumping yourself up and becoming huge, but without having the proportionate strength. That may be fine to some people, it depends on your reasons for training.
    Creatine increases the production of ATP. In my book that make you stronger.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HIT wrote:
    Creatine increases the production of ATP. In my book that make you stronger.

    Yes, i never said strength won't increase.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    staxx wrote:
    Yes, i never said strength won't increase.
    staxx wrote:
    But i think you've missed my point - using stuff like creatine makes your muscles bigger, but not necessarily stronger.

    :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    staxx wrote:
    using stuff like creatine makes your muscles bigger, but not necessarily stronger.
    Creatine's main attractive effect is it's ability to keep lactic acid from building up. It let's you work out harder and revamp quicker. so, working out harder, makes you stronger. I see it as more of a work out aid than just a muscle mass increaser.
    I use creatine mixed with dextrose and a few other electrolytes... It was actually cheaper than pure creatine, and it was 2lbs more! score.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What i meant was, as it increases cell volume you look bigger but without much gains in strength. I didn't say it wouldn't add any strength, it does make you train harder which of course increases strength
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm using creatine pct. Even though anavar doesn't produce any water gains I will be using creatine for any mass they might be lost whilst recovering.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I went to the gym and I had a fair bit more strength than usual. I felt pumped and up for it but actually found everything a lot easier than usual and felt absolutely great and happy after it. Must have gotten a good rush of endorphins, I'd say creatine may have played a part in it but my diet has been really good recently and I've handled rough weekends suprisingly well .re all-nighters , heavy drinking, pills etc. Not lost any weight or anything.
    Imagine what I could do if I didn't party hard, might just be worth giving up for a while I think.

    Don't like exercising a great deal about from riding my bike about but gyms quality.

    Been drinking whey protein & carb shakes but I'm not too sure they're of great help because my diet is good and I think they are just handy inbetween meals or when I feel too rough to eat etc.

    Supplements are worth a try if you're training and eating properly I think.
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