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How much more is the life of one of your own worth than the life of a foreigner?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    You are not listening. You are reading the post having already figured out what to reply with...

    Everything you've written, you don't have first hand experience of any of that.

    Frankly, you are just talking out of your ass.
    And that's about this topic, so don't take it personally.
    Cheers
    Bullshit. Aren't we allowed to criticise any regime or action we haven't experienced ourselves?

    Who are we to say the Taliban were bad people? How can we say Stalin as a tyrant and a mad murderer? Were you around in Nazi Germany? No? In that case I hope you don't have anything bad to say about it...

    If you don't like what you're hearing it's not my problem. Israel is guilty of war crimes and of every single thing I've listed in my previous post, and you know it. No excusses, no justification can ever be found for such acts.

    End of.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blah blah blah blah blah.

    Would you care to stop beating about the bush and answering the following questions:

    Do you think any cost is acceptable in order to secure the release of a single soldier?

    If the IDF started killing 100 Palestinians per hour until the soldier is released would you support such action?

    Do the lives of Palestinians have any worth? If so, how many Palestinian lives equate an Israeli life?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5175002.stm

    Now in any other circumstances this would be an act of war against another state....
    It is an act of war. And a war crime. The Geneva Convention states very clearly that the deliberate destruction of lives and property for revenge or as collective punishment is illegal as hell.

    Not to mention this:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5175160.stm


    I have always said I would not support military action against Israel, just as I do not support military action against other brutal regimes unless there is an urgent and critical situation. I'm starting to believe we're reaching that point.

    Israel, today, is a rogue state out of control, hyper-aggressive, dangerous and murderous. There's no other fucking way about it.

    Time for someone to intervene.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Do you think any cost is acceptable in order to secure the release of a single soldier?

    I'm not sure what you mean. This isn't just about securing the release of Israeli soldiers. Hezbollah that runs southern Lebanon has been launching rockets across the border into Israel since things escalated. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 as confirmed by the UN but Hezbollah backed by Iran and Syria has initiated a war with Israel.

    Meanwhile Hamas have demanded the release of 1,500 dangerous prisoners - 1,500 terrorists in return for Gilad Shalit.
    Aladdin wrote:
    If the IDF started killing 100 Palestinians per hour until the soldier is released would you support such action?

    No and it's an absurd and offensive question; it's quite inconceivable for the IDF to deliberately single out civilians in their attempts to secure the release of their soldiers.
    Aladdin wrote:
    Do the lives of Palestinians have any worth? If so, how many Palestinian lives equate an Israeli life?

    How many Africans lives equate to a Palestinian life? Despite much of Africa having massively higher mortality rates, disease and even worse poverty the UN gives a disproportionate amount of resources to the Palestinians. Indeed there is one UN worker per 165 Palestinian refugees while there is one UN worker per 3,582 non-Palestinian refugees. And as we all know if it wasn't for who the Palestinians were fighting many parties would have as much indifference for their plight as much of the world does to Africa. (I wonder how much UN resources Rwanda got in comparison to the Palestinians...I wonder which issue the UN spent more time on...)

    Anyway I do not think an Israeli life is any more valuable than any other human life. Human life is about much more than nationality or religion. The loss of innocent life in fighting a war; whether it was civilians bombed in WWII or whether it is Palestinians affected by anti-terrorist operations is always regrettable and tragic. But that said war aimed at a dangerous enemy is sometimes justifiable and an unfortunate by-product can be that innocent people get caught up in these things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure what you mean. This isn't just about securing the release of Israeli soldiers. Hezbollah that runs southern Lebanon has been launching rockets across the border into Israel since things escalated. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 as confirmed by the UN but Hezbollah backed by Iran and Syria has initiated a war with Israel.
    How about the 60+ innocent Palestinians killed in Gaza? How about the tens of thousands left without any electricity and with food supplies desperately short?

    Such measures have nothing to do with Israeli security or even with an operation to liberate the soldier, and you know it. Such measures are simply an act of revenge and blackmail: namely 'we will keep bombing and killing you until you free the soldier'.

    So I'll ask you again: what do you think of such measures? Do you condemn them, or do you think killing several dozens Palestinians, soon to be three figures by the looks of it, and making conditions extremely difficult for tens of thousands is an acceptable cost for trying to secure the life of a single soldier?

    How many Palestinians would have to die before you said 'the Israeli government is wrong to do that'?

    No and it's an absurd and offensive question; it's quite inconceivable for the IDF to deliberately single out civilians in their attempts to secure the release of their soldiers.
    Oh they don't 'single them out'. They just bomb carelessly without caring whether they kill 'terrorists' or civilians.

    How on earth do you think those 60 Palestinians have died since the aggression began? From bird flu?


    How many Africans lives equate to a Palestinian life? Despite much of Africa having massively higher mortality rates, disease and even worse poverty the UN gives a disproportionate amount of resources to the Palestinians. Indeed there is one UN worker per 165 Palestinian refugees while there is one UN worker per 3,582 non-Palestinian refugees. And as we all know if it wasn't for who the Palestinians were fighting many parties would have as much indifference for their plight as much of the world does to Africa. (I wonder how much UN resources Rwanda got in comparison to the Palestinians...I wonder which issue the UN spent more time on...)
    Way to miss the point.
    Anyway I do not think an Israeli life is any more valuable than any other human life. Human life is about much more than nationality or religion. The loss of innocent life in fighting a war; whether it was civilians bombed in WWII or whether it is Palestinians affected by anti-terrorist operations is always regrettable and tragic. But that said war aimed at a dangerous enemy is sometimes justifiable and an unfortunate by-product can be that innocent people get caught up in these things.
    If that is the case then you must be against the actions of the Israeli government during this crisis. Please note that I'm not discussing the larger conflict here. I'm discussing Israel bombing people and buildings and leaving them without electricity as punishment and to force them to release a captured soldier.

    Any decent-thinking person regardless of their nationality, race or allegiances should be sickened and outraged by the actions of the Israeli government.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As usual you're both half right.

    The Israeli's shouldn't bomb civilian targets like power stations but then neither should Hamas fire rockets over into Israel every day.

    The Israeli's shouldn't take prisoners for no good reason, and neither should Hamas.

    Both sides are up to their eyes in guilt.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    As usual you're both half right.

    The Israeli's shouldn't bomb civilian targets like power stations but then neither should Hamas fire rockets over into Israel every day.

    The Israeli's shouldn't take prisoners for no good reason, and neither should Hamas.

    Both sides are up to their eyes in guilt.
    Both are as bad as each other.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Bullshit. Aren't we allowed to criticise any regime or action we haven't experienced ourselves?

    Who are we to say the Taliban were bad people? How can we say Stalin as a tyrant and a mad murderer? Were you around in Nazi Germany? No? In that case I hope you don't have anything bad to say about it...

    If you don't like what you're hearing it's not my problem. Israel is guilty of war crimes and of every single thing I've listed in my previous post, and you know it. No excusses, no justification can ever be found for such acts.

    End of.

    You gotta nack for twisting words, you are not a lawyer by any chance? ;)

    If you feel so strongly about this, why don't you go there, get recruited and fight the Israelis? Go on a hunger strike, chain yourself infront of houses of parliament, make a website with a petition, whatever...RES NON VERBA!

    Who are we to judge a conflict that's been going on for decades between people that hate each other and will never be able to live together? Both sides are using the UN, and the US as bargaining chips and shit and NEITHER side is interested in peace. Do you get that?
    Whatever underlaying motives both sides have for war, we will never fully understand them. We can hope that the situation will resolve itself whenever.

    BUT THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why on earth do you post in a politics message board if you think that way? It's not as if you're solving a single issue you ever comment on...

    Of course we all have the right to comment on actual events. And of course one can form a very good informed opinion on matters. And of course one can feel angry about injustice, war and human right abuses.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My own as in my family? Probably lots. My own as in someone from the same country? No more. I don't know either, I have no connection to either, so I feel the same way about both.

    Ditto.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Why on earth do you post in a politics message board if you think that way? It's not as if you're solving a single issue you ever comment on...

    Of course we all have the right to comment on actual events. And of course one can form a very good informed opinion on matters. And of course one can feel angry about injustice, war and human right abuses.

    I agree with everything you said there apart from the second sentence.
    How do you know what I do?

    Everybody's gotta right to comment.
    Everybody can form an opinion.
    Everyone can feel angry about injustice.

    What I am trippin on is that some people here tend to think that THEIR opinion is the LAW and dismiss any other point of view.
    Don't you agree?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think many people believe their opinion is the law. The law is crystal clear about what is lawful or unlawful. Of course, there are different ways of interpreting a situation, but most of those cases are just one party trying to justify the unjustifiable.

    The Geneva Convention states very clearly that collective punishment and the deliberate destruction of people and property are illegal. There can be no excuses, ifs or buts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I don't think many people believe their opinion is the law. The law is crystal clear about what is lawful or unlawful. Of course, there are different ways of interpreting a situation, but most of those cases are just one party trying to justify the unjustifiable.

    The Geneva Convention states very clearly that collective punishment and the deliberate destruction of people and property are illegal. There can be no excuses, ifs or buts.

    My point is; Do Palestinians or Israelis give a damn about what the Geneva Convention says? Have they even signed it?
    Sometimes with these kind of conflicts a normal thought process cannot be applied...
    I might be wrong...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Perhaps it's the thousands of Palestinians rotting in Israeli jails.

    So, the answer is to fight fire with fire?
    I'm kind of dissapointed you asked that. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for the retaliation Israel has embarked on. Regardless of the original kidnapping act, which you might regard as justified or wrong, to terrorise, bombard and kill indiscriminately is unnaceptable.

    I don't disagree with your point that the retalliation is excessive. But there is a simple way to stop it.

    Give back the soldiers, it is afterall what caused it to happen.

    But let's face it, the like of Hamas don't actually give a shit about what Israel is doing because it means that people like you will become more entrenched in your hatred of the Israeli Govt and miss the fact that there is a cuase.

    Interesting (although not on the same scale) that you can defend Zidane for a massive overreaction to something, but blame Israel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nice analogy Mok. The day Zidane moves on from headbutting someone in the chest to murdering 60 people and bombing and terrorising tens of thousands I can assure you I will blame him in full for his overreaction.

    In the meantime it is Israel who should cease killing and terrorising the population of Gaza- regardless of the wrongness of Hamas in kidnapping a soldier. Two wrongs don't make a right. Especially when the second wrong is thousands of times more serious than the first one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Especially when a soldier (and one part of a generations long ethnocidal apartheid force like the IDF) is a legitimate military target, whilst attacks by state actors upon civilian population centers were established and ratified by our own governments as War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.

    That anyone, the rabid resident ideologues notwithstanding, can make any excuse for Israel's criminality whilst feigning constant concern for "genocides" in Africa and elsewhere, only highlights the inconsistency of principle so deeply indoctrinated into so many by the longstanding complicit corporate media's whitewashed portrayal of the conflict.

    This began with grasping Zionist ideological lust for power (aided by the Western powers of the era) and the terrorist acts of the Israeli state's founders and has continued with impunity to the present with only continued villification for the true victims for daring to fight back.

    May all who condemn the Palestinians from the smug safety and ignorance of their cozy armchairs be forced to live and suffer as the Palestinians do under Israeli brutality and oppression on a daily basis. Comprehension of the systemic, institutionalised colonialist militancy inherent to Israel state policy opposite the indigenous inhabitants of the land would soon dawn on them if they were.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Nice analogy Mok. The day Zidane moves on from headbutting someone in the chest to murdering 60 people and bombing and terrorising tens of thousands I can assure you I will blame him in full for his overreaction.

    Ahem, I did mention the scale.

    Principle is the same. You antagonise the lion and he'll bit your head off.
    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Even though you excuse the kidnappings on the basis that Israel has imprisoned Palestinians?
    Especially when the second wrong is thousands of times more serious than the first one.

    Liek I said, I condemn Israel for their overreaction. However, there is a simple solution to this. Give the soldiers back.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Especially when a soldier (and one part of a generations long ethnocidal apartheid force like the IDF) is a legitimate military target, whilst attacks by state actors upon civilian population centers were established and ratified by our own governments as War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.

    Legitimate for whom?

    Other nations, surely? Anything else and you fall under the Geneva Conventions as special forces... unless I am mistaken.
    This began with grasping Zionist ideological lust for power

    Shock, horror. A thread about Israeli/Palestinian conflict and Clandestine drags out the same old Zionist argument. Forgetting, as usual, that it takes two sides to make war.
    May all who condemn the Palestinians from the smug safety and ignorance of their cozy armchairs be forced to live and suffer as the Palestinians do under Israeli brutality and oppression on a daily basis. .


    Yawn.

    May all who condemn Israel be surrounded by people intent on wiping them off the face of the planet, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    See above. Two sides.

    Start looking at the action sof both and you might make some intellectual headway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Other nations, surely? Anything else and you fall under the Geneva Conventions as special forces... unless I am mistaken.

    State militaries who betray all established international conventions are legitimate targets for any against whom they act, state actors or civilian resistance militias alike. Unless you now are advocating that the oppressed have no right to rise up against their oppressors, in which case you are more than unversed in the history of this conflict but in the established norms of international law as well.


    Shock, horror. A thread about Israeli/Palestinian conflict and Clandestine drags out the same old Zionist argument. Forgetting, as usual, that it takes two sides to make war.

    Shock horror, MoK displays his typical middle of the road ignorance of the quite volumnously documented ideological roots of this conflict in the calculated agenda of the colonialist-era Zionist movement and its political connivances with world powers from the time of Balfour (acknowledged by Balfour himself) to the present day.

    Forgetting as usual that invasion of another's land, the forced eviction - through application of terrorist acts you claim to condmen as well as organised military clearances - of over 700,000 indigenous inhabitants, the eradication of their towns and villages, and the ever increasing forced deprivation of those remaining is a unilateralist action against which any people have the right to strike back.

    By your standards its clear you would have called the German Jews terrorists had they risen up and fought back against the Nazi's or the indigenous South Africans the same for returning upon the apartheidists the same terror and brutality applied to them. The principle is no different here simply because you want to believe Israel should be immune from established international legal norms of humanity.

    The shame is all the greater upon Israel (notwithstanding the fact that its founders were atheistic demagogues - who used Judaism and the suffering they helped to escalate upon the average European Jew of the day merely to accelerate their political aspirations) for the necessary rememberance of previous atrocities against their forebears. Those who actually care enough to inform themselves of the calculated agenda of the Zionist movement and its extremist ideological foundation readily acknowledge that truth, Jew and non-Jew alike.
    Yawn.

    The most accurate demonstration of your intellectual and moral complacency on the matter that you have ever made actually.
    May all who condemn Israel be surrounded by people intent on wiping them off the face of the planet, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    Refer to the consistency of brutality, racism and ideological intent to systematically evict the rightful indigenous inhabitants from the land which has characterised every step of the modern state's history from well before its founding to the present day.

    I would love to see you argue that fence-sitter position should an armed force drive you and your family from your home to take up illegitimate residency with impunity (calling you a terrorist should you dare fight back).
    See above. Two sides.

    Start looking at the action sof both and you might make some intellectual headway.

    Educate yourself on the ideological concept of group exceptionalism and superiority (to which Zionism, like Naziism and Apartheid all adhere) and do some reading beyond the whitewashed mainstream press about the actual history of Israel's founding and perpetuation by force and YOU might have some room to comment on anyone else's "intellectual headway".

    It's been fairly obvious for sometime that the depth of your knowledge on the matter only goes as deep as what you can read during tv commercial breaks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ahem, I did mention the scale.

    Principle is the same. You antagonise the lion and he'll bit your head off.
    Principle doesn't mean anything at all when the actions themselves are so indescribably different in seriousness.


    Even though you excuse the kidnappings on the basis that Israel has imprisoned Palestinians?
    At least that's on a more level playing field. Kidnapping/imprisoment is better than murder.

    And even so... 1 Israeli soldier vs. 1000s Palestinians. There's only one side who's been committing excesses at a far, far larger scale here.


    Liek I said, I condemn Israel for their overreaction. However, there is a simple solution to this. Give the soldiers back.
    Even a simpler solution would be for Israel to stop commiting war crimes immediately, even if one of theirs had been kidnapped.

    At the end of the day that is what civilised nations do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally I've no problem with the Palestinians capturing IDF members - if they treat them under the conventions of the Geneva convention.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No I must say I don't either.

    Unfortunately neither side cares much about those things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    First of all, one soldier?
    Are you stupid? The whole day has been tainted by the fact that two more have been kidnapped!

    Oh two whole more...how many hundred thousand people are suffering due to Israel is it again?




    You say its lies? Ive written essays on the subject and gotten good marks for it. Give me some time and I can find the essays and the sources for my claims. However i very much doubt im going to change an israeli sympathisers view.



    The Israelis also know what they're doing. Yet again using a minor excuse to bring misery to thousands of Palestinians whos lives are miserable enough already. I can see why these people are doing what they are doing. They are doing it because they hate Israel and its inexcuseable actions. Any other state like it would have been acted upon years ago. But Israel is a 'special case' for no apparant reason.



    So you dont care how many have to die? You monster. Israel has done much much MUCH more damage to the Palestinians. In fact its always done out of proportion responses. A policy first begun my Ben Gurion. Any small attack on Israel was met with a massive out of proportion response.

    Seriously, undergraduate essays and you deem yourself a prophessor on the subject? Get a grip.
    I got straight A's when writing on the subject from Zionism to the actual conflict throughout school and high-school, and got a first for my essay on the Arab-Israeli wars at uni. That does not make me an expert.

    Lies, yes. May I remind you that one of the 8 soldiers killed the other day was actually a druze? Yes, an Arab serving in the IDF, having his coffin covered in an Israeli flag. Culturally, it is interesting to note that the winner of some televised model competition recently was an Arabic Israeli. This breaks your stigma of Israel wanting to kill every single Arab in the region.
    Your point of view neglects some important points.

    And yeah, call me a monster however much you like - at the moment you're deeming yourself worthy for a nobel prize based on your (minor) knowledge on the subject while I'm in the midst of it :)
    Changes perspective a bit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If the IDF started killing 100 Palestinians per hour until the soldier is released would you support such action?

    This is quite an unreasonable example to make, it has no basis whatsoever in reality and is clearly not the case.
    I really can't see what purpose this kind of example serves to be quite frank.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is a simple exercise to see whether those who claim Israel is doing nothing wrong with its current campain to free the captured soldiers think any measure, however barbaric, would be justified in order to get the soldiers back, or if they acknowledge that there is such thing as disproportionate retaliation.

    Because as far as I'm concerned anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with Israel bombarding Gaza and Lebanon and killing more than 100 people so far in direct retaliation for the kidnapping of 3 solders can't possibly think the lives of innocent Palestinians and Lebanese have any worth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I saw your disgusting boycott Israel icon Aladdin. Are you highlighting the fact that you're boycotting Russia, China and Zimbabwe too? Or do you only care about Palestinians - and er not Chechnyans, Tibetans and Zimbabwean democrats? Do you like your cheap consumer goods too much to boycott China? Why are you singling out Israel and not targeting China or are you bizarrely claiming that Israel's crimes are worse than those of China? :confused: Regardless of thoughts about Israel if we're boycotting countries for wrongdoings there's a lot of places committing far worse. I wish it was a coincidence that it is the Jewish state singled out every time but it's sadly not.

    Regardless like many other supporters of Israel I will continue to deliberately go out of my way to buy Israeli goods and up my monthly donation to a Zionist charity. That should balance out the prejudices of a distinct minority with a sinister agenda.

    Syria, Iran and Lebanon could end this almost straight away by ensuring the release of soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah. Israel withdrew from Lebanon and Gaza not with the intention of reoccupation. I guess it's unsurprising that a BBC/Guardian mouthpiece like Aladdin hasn't a word to say on the constant missile attacks into Israeli territory that have provoked Israel and admittedly incited some regrettable actions. I'll admit I'm not entirely comfortable with Israel's response but the ball is in the court of Hamas and Hezbollah with Lebanon, Syria and Iran holding the influence to help move things forward. - But they won't and why would they? Their propaganda has worked and the liberal media have swallowed their message and those that hate Israel are rejoicing. Release the soldiers now and Israel will get out of Gaza and Lebanon.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course I view Israel's crimes against the Palestinians as worse than those committed by China. How could it be otherwise?

    There have been worse atrocities in terms of numbers of people killed- Rwanda for instance- but there are one or two fundamental differences between the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and anything else. It is the longest running war crime and historical injustice in modern history (at least 4 decades now, and more if you take into account other issues), and the only one that continues to be allowed to carry on by the international community without as much as a whimper of protest from our spineless leaders.

    Rest assured that there are far more people boycotting Israeli products than those going out of their way supporting them so I would recommend upping your daily donation. I know a great many people from different walks of life who won't buy Israeli products, and one or two who will actually damage them whilst in the supermarket whenever it is possible.

    I don't really see why you think it is "disgusting". The only thing disgusting here is the Crimes Against Humanity that Israel has been allowed to carry out unchecked for longer than most of us have been alive. No one here is asking for Israel to be destroyed or even attacked militarily.

    What exactly is "disgusting" about trying to force a regime to end decades of oppression, illegal occupation and human rights abuses?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It is the longest running war crime and historical injustice in modern history (at least 4 decades now, and more if you take into account other issues), and the only one that continues to be allowed to carry on by the international community without as much as a whimper of protest from our spineless leaders.

    The civil war in Colombia has been running for about that long and no one cares.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Of course I view Israel's crimes against the Palestinians as worse than those committed by China. How could it be otherwise?

    China's occupation of Tibet has been going on far longer and the invasion had much less cause (Tibet wasn't trying to destroy China). Some 1.2m Tibetians have been killed by the Chinese since 1950 (including 260,000 in prison camps and jails between 1950 and 1984).

    TBH unlike Dis I don't think that is anti-semitism which fuels the double-standards, but because Israel has a relatively free and open society which allows the press easy access to report it excesses and to get into the occupied territories. if Israel operated a closed door policy towards the media, it would slip down the world's consciousnous pretty quickly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But they already do... indirectly of course.

    The sad (and incredible) truth is that the immense majority of Americans aren't even aware of 10% of the hardships, killings and misery imposed on the Palestinians. And whatever filters out is distorted beyond all recognition.

    How could it be otherwise, when even US citizens assassinated by the IDF such as Rachel Corrie are either ignored or painted as terrorists themselves, or claimed to have died in an 'accident'.

    The only vestiges of truth and actual events events that take place in Palestine come from undercover reporters and the likes of the Red Cross or peace volunteers.

    The 'vibrant democracy' of Israel is very well known for harrassing, banning or even temporarily jailing foreign journalists that have the temerity to report some of the less savoury actions of the IDF. Countless British journalists themselves have experienced Israel's take on 'freedom of the press'.

    This website makes sobering reading about media manipulation and how much the American public really knows about the conflict.

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/
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