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from the work monitoring thread....

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
the right to remain silent, or so i thought - apparantly they're considering making it a crime to not tell the police your passwords on computers etc

surely this is wrong, obviously they're using the excuse of catching paedophiles, but i doubt it really as for things like movies/pictures there a huge reserve of tempory files, and using encrypted files all the time takes forever

the right to not say anything to incriminate yourself surely is a basic legal right

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's none of their fucking business.

    I'd've thought they'd be doing it under the pretence of preventing terrorism.

    Encrypting files isn't a huge issue, though. Filevault on a Mac or DriveCrypt on a PC make the process quite transparant and easy. FileVault comes with the OS, so it's not even an added cost.

    Anyway, don't you already get 2 years in prison for not disclosing an encryption password?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you have not done anything illegal I don't see why having a problem with it... If you do, well you know the risk and you know you can get caught... Passwords can be cracked anyway... All it would do is save them some time...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you have not done anything illegal I don't see why having a problem with it... If you do, well you know the risk and you know you can get caught... Passwords can be cracked anyway... All it would do is save them some time...

    "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide...". Jesus fucking christ.
    If you hold that view, just post up your address. (Yes, I do know it's against board rules).

    If I chose to encrypt data it would be because it was not for unauthorised people to view. Would I trust anyone else with my data? Would I fuck.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide...". Jesus fucking christ.
    If you hold that view, just post up your address. (Yes, I do know it's against board rules).

    If I chose to encrypt data it would be because it was not for unauthorised people to view. Would I trust anyone else with my data? Would I fuck.

    Yeah well you aint the police are ya...

    If the police ask for your password you are probably suspected of something, so if you are innoncent it is in your best interest to cooperate...

    It's not like they are going to ask every single owner of computers to provide them with their passwords... That obviously would be fucked up...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the police ask for your password you are probably suspected of something, so if you are innoncent it is in your best interest to cooperate...

    It's not like they are going to ask every single owner of computers to provide them wit their passwords... That obviously would be fucked up...

    Probably suspected of something.

    Why should I have to prove my innocence?

    No, I'm sure they wouldn't, as it would be rather time consuming. But suspicions are just that. Suspicions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Probably suspected of something.

    Why should I have to prove my innocence?

    No, I'm sure they wouldn't, as it would be rather time consuming. But suspicions are just that. Suspicions.

    Yes I know, but it's not like they would suspect anyone of anything for no good reason, unless victim of a prank or something... To be a suspect you need something that point in your direction... And if you are innoncent why have a trouble with them having a quick look, finding nothing and moving on...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still can believe there are people out there who say "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide...". :shocking:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes I know, but it's not like they would suspect anyone of anything for no good reason, unless victim of a prank or something... To be a suspect you need something that point in your direction... And if you are innoncent why have a trouble with them having a quick look, finding nothing and moving on...

    I suppose it all depends on what is defined as a good reason.

    The police aren't necessarily trustworthy, either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I still can believe there are people out there who say "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide...". :shocking:

    Why not? Why can happend if you are suspected of something, give the your password ad tey find nothing? As I said it's not like they will check everyone computer and if they suspect you of porn I highly doubt that if they find few divx on yur system they will caught you for it.. And if they do, well it is illegal and everyone knows it so having some is taking a risk...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    privacy is becoming an outdated old fashioned kind of idea with the help of a lot of you people who have been brainwashed.

    a guy i know went for a temporary job with an agency ...reading leccy meters.
    they asked him to sign a form agreeing to random drug tests.
    he told them to fuck off and walked out.
    good on him i say.
    employers don't own you ya know ...r are more and more people becoming slaves than realise it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suppose it all depends on what is defined as a good reason.

    The police aren't necessarily trustworthy, either.

    Oh I agree with that... But if you are suspected of paedophilia for example surely you want to give the your password to prove them you don't own any... Don't really want your head in the paper as someone suspected to have paedophilia content... Or some other stuff as bad as that...

    As I said if they really want to know they can just take the computer and crack passwords anyway...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would never give the mine if they just ask for no really good reason...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why not? Why can happend if you are suspected of something, give the your password ad tey find nothing? As I said it's not like they will check everyone computer and if they suspect you of porn I highly doubt that if they find few divx on yur system they will caught you for it.. And if they do, well it is illegal and everyone knows it so having some is taking a risk...
    I think you've too much faith in the State/authorities.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This law is for encryption keys, if you do not hand over your keys then you can face 2 years in nick and terrorist suspects can get up to 5 years under current anti-terrorism legislation.

    There are ways to get round that though. If you were to use a decent encryption package like TrueCrypt which can create encrypted files and voumes without installing the software and leaving any traces, you'd be quite safe. Even if an attacker was to find traces of ciphertext on your disk you could say "well ok, I am using encryption, here is my key, please do not chuck me in jail". This key would be for the outer volume where you'd keep your dummy files, the inner volume stays hidden so the attacker wouldn't know you had one and wouldn't have any proof that you did.

    If worst comes to worst you do time and don't give them your password your stuff is safe, if you use strong encryption with a strong password and no crap that is sold on a commercial market then they wouldn't be able to crack your password. It could take years and years before they finally found it.

    Deception + denialability = win :D.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh I agree with that... But if you are suspected of paedophilia for example surely you want to give the your password to prove them you don't own any... Don't really want your head in the paper as someone suspected to have paedophilia content... Or some other stuff as bad as that...

    As I said if they really want to know they can just take the computer and crack passwords anyway...


    if the police dont find anything and want to get you done, they will find their ways

    and in the case of paedophilia in particular it most likely if you do a full hard drive surface scan with data recovery surface you would probably find stuff
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Makoto wrote:
    This law is for encryption keys, if you do not hand over your keys then you can face 2 years in nick and terrorist suspects can get up to 5 years under current anti-terrorism legislation.

    There are ways to get round that though. If you were to use a decent encryption package like TrueCrypt which can create encrypted files and voumes without installing the software and leaving any traces, you'd be quite safe. Even if an attacker was to find traces of ciphertext on your disk you could say "well ok, I am using encryption, here is my key, please do not chuck me in jail". This key would be for the outer volume where you'd keep your dummy files, the inner volume stays hidden so the attacker wouldn't know you had one and wouldn't have any proof that you did.

    If worst comes to worst you do time and don't give them your password your stuff is safe, if you use strong encryption with a strong password and no crap that is sold on a commercial market then they wouldn't be able to crack your password. It could take years and years before they finally found it.

    Deception + denialability = win :D.


    another idea is to store encrypted files on an outside source, so you can just say 'well i must have a trojan virus or sumit'

    quite honestly, if there was something personal i wanted encrypted like say a diary or sumit, id fucking rather go prison than disclose

    i value my personal freedoms above all else, best of all if you leave them to do a brute force decryption youll be out and they still wouldnt be done

    this country needs a large minority to stick to their principals and not be conned by this 'security' bollocks and say 'sod off', most people who have actually done something wrong, they leave trails and good policework can catch them, not letting the police be lazy and waste time on easy people like parking offences instead of getting people who cant drive properly etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I think you've too much faith in the State/authorities.

    :lol::lol::lol: That's the funniest thing anyone ever said about me...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if the police dont find anything and want to get you done, they will find their ways

    and in the case of paedophilia in particular it most likely if you do a full hard drive surface scan with data recovery surface you would probably find stuff

    Depends if the data was overwritten and file names scrambled. You could overwrite a file 30 times (or much less) with random data and no software recovery tools would be able to find those dodgy files, even if they did they wouldn't be readable. What would happen is A. the attacker gives up and says "ok nothing found, you can go", or B. they use Magnetic Force Microscopy or Scanning Tunneling Microscopy. <--- not something I'd talk about here but if you interested to know then check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_force_microscope | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_tunneling_microscope

    That would be for some serious serious offense and I doubt the poilce would spend the time and money on either of the above two hardware methods for paedophilia because it would be very difficult to reconstruct, although very possible. The same goes for trying to crack passwords, I doubt that would waste time, they would try and nail them for something else instead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if the police dont find anything and want to get you done, they will find their ways

    and in the case of paedophilia in particular it most likely if you do a full hard drive surface scan with data recovery surface you would probably find stuff

    Exactly...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is a way around anyway, get HD Killer, create a second account on your system, the "just in case" one, give them the password for it, when it log in automatically make it load the HD Killer in few second all the content will be destroy, maybe up to 30% could be recovered with difficulty and in plenty of case the HD is not even working at all...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    privacy is becoming an outdated old fashioned kind of idea with the help of a lot of you people who have been brainwashed.

    a guy i know went for a temporary job with an agency ...reading leccy meters.
    they asked him to sign a form agreeing to random drug tests.
    he told them to fuck off and walked out.
    good on him i say.
    employers don't own you ya know ...r are more and more people becoming slaves than realise it?

    The difference is mate... that the employers will not tie you up to do the test... here in this case if they want to the police will get your system and get the info anyway... which would stop you from going on the site while they inspect it :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "If you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide...". Jesus fucking christ.
    If you hold that view, just post up your address. (Yes, I do know it's against board rules).

    If I chose to encrypt data it would be because it was not for unauthorised people to view. Would I trust anyone else with my data? Would I fuck.

    I think what he means is, and NMM if I am wrong, sorry, that the police don't come knocking on your door unless they got something on you. And in that case, you probably do have something to hide, and it's logical for them to make it legal to request the password of you, or else...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is a way around anyway, get HD Killer, create a second account on your system, the "just in case" one, give them the password for it, when it log in automatically make it load the HD Killer in few second all the content will be destroy, maybe up to 30% could be recovered with difficulty and in plenty of case the HD is not even working at all...

    But anything stored on a magnetnic device is possible to restore if your willing to spend the money. The only way to get rid of stuff on a hard drive would be to use a degausser and physically smash the hard drive to a thousand bits. Encryption is the safest way to lock things away.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Makoto wrote:
    But anything stored on a magnetnic device is possible to restore if your willing to spend the money. The only way to get rid of stuff on a hard drive would be to use a degausser and physically smash the hard drive to a thousand bits.
    The program, once executed, will start eating up the hard drive, and/or infect and reboot the hard drive within a few seconds. After rebooting, all hard drives attached to the system would be formatted (in an unrecoverable manner) within only 1 to 2 seconds, irregardless of the size of the hard drive. The program has reported to have caused physical damage to some hard drives (on many occasions).

    But yes it could still be recovered if enough money is spend and well if no physical damages have occur... Still a pretty efficient piece of software...

    Degausser like seen in the movie "The Core"...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not seen it, no.

    I must say that the only thing I'd LOVE to work as would be a computer forensic, it would be very interesting!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Makoto wrote:
    Not seen it, no.

    I must say that the only thing I'd LOVE to work as would be a computer forensic, it would be very interesting!

    It must be fucking interesting indeed...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The right to remain silent was compromised with the 1994 Criminal Justice Act.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People who still think "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" would do well to read some recent social history. Start with the Guildford 4 and Birmingham 6 and then move on to how the police used the sus laws in places such as Brixton in the 1970's and 80's.
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