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An ethical question
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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But I'm not sure its best to give it direct to someone who's homeless. If you could be sure that they were going to use it to get food or try and get into a hostel, yes, but I'd worry they're just going to use it on drugs and/or drinks. In which case it seems that giving them the money direct is actually just making their problems worse.
Far better to give it to a homeless charity or one dealing with alochol or substance abuse.
This is what I was thinking. And why I never give tobeggars; only those people wo walk around with the collection tins with the charity name on them.
I can see your point, and in large part I agree, but if the person isnt ready to give up their habit you can fund treatment centres all you like and it wont help. They will get the money from somewhere, and that could be more damaging than just begging.
As for drink and drugs, well if I'm going to give my money then I would much rather do it with a trusting heart than start giving them the Spanish inquisition over where it will end up. Of course there are serious problems with alcohol and drug abuse on the streets, but they will get the money by other means and that can only ever be worse. After all, some people living on the streets would much, much prefer to have four tins than a sausage roll and a cup of tea (what we often assume they need)... and while that's not ideal, I don't think it's right to assume that because they're on the street we know their needs, what is best for them and what they should be buying with their meagre spoils. There are myriad problems that come with being homeless, I imagine the last thing they need is Mother Theresa piping up with a lecture on the perils of drinking and drug taking. I can completely understand why people wouldn't want to sate someone else's drink or drug cravings [especially if they were on their way to the pub right at that moment to do that exact same thing themselves] but I definitely believe that we should try to give to beggars with no questions asked. On that note, I believe that if we're giving directly into the coffers of a charity then we should give with many, many questions asked.
Oh, and don't flagellate yourself over a £2.50 pint sophia, you do deserve it.
It's very hard to know how much to give. Life is hard for every one of us, even with a roof over our head and food in the fridge, but of course that pales into comparison when you see homeless people who have nothing. I don't think we should necessarily deprive ourselves to help the deprived, if you see what I mean.
Ideally we would all give every penny that you didn't need to good causes, but the majority aren't wired that way and I don't see it happening, ever. Then you have to think that if everyone gave a little [more] rather than the minority giving a disproportionate amount then we would be in a much happier situation in terms of helping the disadvantaged in this country. But we're naturally far more likely to be tempted into that extra night out than to give the money to a person on the street, it's more fun! You'd be mad to do otherwise! etc. That's not intrinsically a bad thing - after all, some would say, I earned that money so why shouldn't I? - but when you lead a vaguely comfortable financial life it's so hard to see from the over perspective and realise that you don't need to have a coffee on the train etc as you said.
I suppose the ideal is to give what you can to charity and individuals without compromising a secure and pleasant lifestyle for yourself. It is probably a good idea to think about forsaking one little luxury, if it's an issue you contend with. Though as NQA said, giving your time can be just as productive (if not more) and has the added benefit of allowing you to see where your efforts are have effect. Also, it means you can have a few guilt-free (or at least guilt-diminished) pints in the pub afterwards :thumb:
I think that's true to a certain extent, but perhaps then we do need to be harsher. If people commit crimes to fund habits then they need to be jailed or forced into rehabilitation as an alternative to jail. If you just continue to give them money the problem isn't going to go away and is likely to get worse, almost certainly leading them into crime because eventually begging on its own won't be enough to fund the habit.
£32 for a haircut :shocking: I can get mine cut for a fiver :thumb:
I've always worked on about 5% of my income (after tax) though that's a rough average and I'm pretty sure I don't always give that much. My grandpa used to give 10% (but that included some to the church and money he gave his children for them to put in the church collection box)
If you don't want to give, don't give. Don't feel bad about it. If it makes you feel bad, then give. Or do something for the needy, like volunteering etc.
If I'm feeling flush and have enough and if they are polite to me then I'll give. If I simply don't have enough or they are rude, then I won't give.
I shop at a lot of charity shops too. I tend to give more to animals though, as there isn't enough done to help/save them. If it becomes apparent that there has been abuse towards people then something is done about it. If it's animal, people get a slap on the wrist. To me, that hurts a hell of a lot.
A) We dont give that much
C) Another large chunk is wasted on stupid civil wars or conflicts
I often used to give 'spare change' to homeless people, but now I'm really torn about it. My gut feeling tells me to do it, but my more sensible self tells me not to.
to the 2nd part that i forgot to quote, is it africa's leaders that give away their produce etc?
But even with subsidies as high as they are now we arent anywhere near self sufficient. The CAP fails on every level, its massively costly, bad for farmers and the enviroment and damaging for farmers outside the EU.
Yes, but the 5% would still be spent somewhere. In my case its likely a fair chunk of it will be given to ex-servicemen on hard times - they then spend the money to businesses and to the RNLI who use the money to buy lifejackets, new boats etc from business.
They do help, but its not as simple as just giving more, take Uganda for example, its stable and could have a really good future but its involved in a long running and pointless conflict in the north which dooms thousands of people to poverty and death.
Or Nigeria - makes billions from oil yet because of corruption the people get poorer year on year.
Or Sudan where another civil war makes the plight of the already poor people even worse.
Or EG which is awash with oil yet because of a nasty dictator its people live in poverty.
But we're more than self-sufficient. If we needed to feed ourselves and didn't impoirt food, we might have less banna's, coffee etc, but we'd still have more than enough food to feed ourselves.
I'd agree with you on CAP however
But I don't know too much about this in general, so maybe we should get Bob Geldof in. Something I want to learn more about though.
The debts are a side issue largely, do you really trust the Sudanese government to give more money to the poor?
Having said that, some governments who can prove they are taking steps against corruption should have their debts gradually written off.
Already happening with DTTO's (now DRR's), DIP, ROB etc. Although its debateable how effective forced treatment is.
Actually I'd argue that not giving money will lead to more crime. If you need a score and you can't beg up the money, you still need to get it from somewhere.
Intevening at a criminal justice level isn't going to make the problem go away either. While some people feel the need to take drugs to escape the misery of their lives, the problem ain't going anywhere.
As you have more knowledge on this than I do I'll bow to your expertise.
But begging in itself can feel threatening, especially if you're a woman or an elderly person. Now I'm not saying all begging is threatening or everyone feels threatened by it, but many do and fear of crime can be as bad, if not worse, than actual crime. And all it does is make the problem worse, by giving to beggars the problem doesn't go away. At least by trying to fund shelters, substance abuse charities there is a chance you can actually provide long-term help, rather than short-term help, but causing a longer term problem.
i'd agree to a certain extent. There will always be drug and alcohol problems and throwing people in jail for a bit and then letting them out with no support/help just makes the problem worse. what is needed is a system that can help people without the need for them to be jailed,l but as a back-up the threat of jail as an incentive to people to do something to help themselves (albeit with help from professionals).
but at the end of the day only so much can be done unless people are themselves willing to try and set themselves straight (and I'm aware that in reality this may not be as easy as waking up in the morning and saying 'hey I'm going to stop drinking alcohol today'), but if you can get easy fixes there's even less of an incentive to give up.
Whats the answer in the real world? fucked if I know