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Proud to be Muslim, a soldier and British

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Story.

More unfortuate and sad news but the Muslim community and Britain can be very proud of L/Cpl Jabron Hashmi.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another jingoistic piece of contrived mass media drivel. The Lt wasn't a casualty of "the war on terror", he was killed in service to an ongoing illegal neo-colonialist war of transnational aggression, illegal imposition and necessary forceful maintenance of a non self-determinant, pro western corporate serving puppet government over another sovereign nation which neither could nor did threaten either the US or the UK in any way shape or form.

    Nothing any rational, consistently principled, anti-imperialistic person would deem a matter of pride in the slightest - least of all any member of the Muslim community who is old enough to recall the legacy of previous, repeated, equally doomed attempts to subjugate countries and peoples of the region to the dictats of Washington and London.

    Our resident Zionist mouthpiece is of course too young to understand what those in the region recognise all too well as simply the latest in a long succession of claimed "liberations"/"democratisations" (read: military conquests), but perhaps one day should he ever develop the critical reasoning capacities to see beyond the soundbites and stock in trade MIC PR, there might be some hope for him.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well done Clan, only three paragraphs and you got all your major points in there including MIC, you're getting sharper.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aren't you a funny lad. :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another jingoistic piece of contrived mass media drivel. The Lt wasn't a casualty of "the war on terror", he was killed in service to an ongoing illegal neo-colonialist war of transnational aggression, illegal imposition and necessary forceful maintenance of a non self-determinant, pro western corporate serving puppet government over another sovereign nation which neither could nor did threaten either the US or the UK in any way shape or form.

    Nothing any rational, consistently principled, anti-imperialistic person would deem a matter of pride in the slightest - least of all any member of the Muslim community who is old enough to recall the legacy of previous, repeated, equally doomed attempts to subjugate countries and peoples of the region to the dictats of Washington and London.

    Our resident Zionist mouthpiece is of course too young to understand what those in the region recognise all too well as simply the latest in a long succession of claimed "liberations"/"democratisations" (read: military conquests), but perhaps one day should he ever develop the critical reasoning capacities to see beyond the soundbites and stock in trade MIC PR, there might be some hope for him.

    What's all this got to do with the L/Cpl and his legacy?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rip :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Role model to the muslim community.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Too much effort to apply an ounce of critical reasoning to figure that out, mig?

    I even pointed out quite clearly in the first paragraph the relevance to the OP's claim concerning Lt. Hashmi's "legacy", so it really does your intellectual credibility no service to have to ask.

    He is no more a laudable hero nor role model for the Muslim community or the public at large than any other willing participant (Russian, Chinese, et al.) in illegal war of aggression and occupation of another sovereign nation. Calling our own heros and others "war criminals" for one and the same act of militaristic interventionism only highlights the cognitive disconnect and moral duplicity long indoctrinated into our public psyche.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    What's all this got to do with the L/Cpl and his legacy?

    Ditto. Clan you're getting as bad Klintock in side tracking threads...

    RIP anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry to disagree Renzo but speaking directly to a moral value claim made by the OP is very much in accordance with the subject of the thread.

    A truly sad indictment against the education today's kids must be receiving if such obvious reasoning escapes so many.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry to disagree Renzo but speaking directly to a moral value claim made by the OP is very much in accordance with the subject of the thread.

    A truly sad indictment against the education today's kids must be receiving if such obvious reasoning escapes so many.

    Do you really have to use such big words by the way...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Such comments truly make me despair that those who claim to care about political issues are incapable of understanding any vocabulary above the level of a marvel comic book. I'm curious as to which two or three syllable word above qualifies as a "big word". Perhaps "education", since that clocks in at a whopping 4 syllables!

    But let's not actually derail the thread now Renzo, as you wrongly accused me of doing in the first place.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Such comments truly make me despair that those who claim to care about political issues are incapable of understanding any vocabulary above the level of a marvel comic book.

    But let's not actually derail the thread now Renzo, as you wrongly accused me of doing in the first place.

    If i want to read big words i'll into reading one of my books. I see Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau on my shelf ;)

    Anyway yes. Carry on the thread...nothing to see here. :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry to disagree Renzo but speaking directly to a moral value claim made by the OP is very much in accordance with the subject of the thread.

    A truly sad indictment against the education today's kids must be receiving if such obvious reasoning escapes so many.

    But its the same stuff in every thread. Basically you put that its all because of zionists, or mossad or the PNAC or a mix of the lot and its all for money and we're all doomed. You paint in such broad strokes that you rarely say anything specific.

    Something along the lines of 'its a shame this young man had to die for a war I dont agree with' would have been more respectful.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    definition : adjective

    clandestine - conducted with or marked by hidden aims or methods

    ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    I even pointed out quite clearly in the first paragraph the relevance to the OP's claim concerning Lt. Hashmi's "legacy", so it really does your intellectual credibility no service to have to ask.

    Why do you keep promoting him? Unless yo know something the rest of us don't he was a lance corporal. If you can't get the basics right why should we trust the rest of what you say?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well bb, perhaps if you researched more about the very real underlying agenda of all you are presented on tv and through jingoistic articles such as the above, the points you mention would not seem like such bizarre concepts.

    I merely repeat the discernable and quite easily researched, well documented truths of current (and preceeding) interventions as often as the topics of discussion warrant. Given that most of these topics, especially from particular contributors, are themselves endless repetitions of the same bogus PR fed to the unquestioning masses, the reality certainly bears repeating.

    And yes it's a shame he died betraying both his community and the principles our own respective nations established to judge war criminals of prior generations in order to participate in a war of aggression.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah my deepest apologies for such a minor typo NQA.

    Not that you are ever likely to believe anything that but the company line from "official government (or military) spokesmen" anyways. :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah my deepest apologies for such a minor typo NQA.

    Not that you are ever likely to believe anything that but the company line from "official government (or military) spokesmen" anyways. :rolleyes:

    You made it twice - which suggests not a typo, but either a poor understanding of the military terminology or you hadn't read the article. Both of which seem pretty fundamental if you want to give a seriously considered view.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes yes NQA, as ever grasping for whatever minor detail you can to evade or dismiss the entire principle of what I've posted. Nothing new or unexpected there.

    Carry on.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes yes NQA, as ever grasping for whatever minor detail you can to evade or dismiss the entire principle of what I've posted. Nothing new or unexpected there.

    Carry on.

    If you can't get the details right why should we have any confidence in the big picture you present (which is long on rhetoric, but short on facts anyway). Same as if I get a book and it continually gets dates wrong, they may be detail, but it also suggests that the author doesn't have such a grasp on the subject as they claim.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    get the details right

    Classic example of the sort of desperate inflated non-argument I have long come to expect from those like yourself.

    Like the other military drones against whom my analyses were repeatedly vindicated as wholly accurate (quite a few with more than ample supporting references) long before you arrived, you are free to cling to whatever unquestioned pro-MIC drivel you choose to surrendered your critical reasoning faculties.

    That I rarely bother these days to expend the effort to provide extensive research references (also not necessary on a topic addressing the moral value judgement of the OP such as this) is readily understandable given the unwitting admissions found on the first page of responses.

    No sense going to any great lengths for those who find anything beyond 3 paragraphs or 2-3 syllables to be a burden. The same applies to those, like yourself, who demonstrate a continuous and willful evasion of any discussion of principle that might demand critical reevaluation of the public mythmaking/hero worship contained in the lead article.

    Also interesting to see your repeated need for group identification by the use of the term "we". Hard to think and speak for yourself after so much military indoctrination, I understand.

    [Let it also be noted the extent to which others than myself wish to harp on with unrelated personal diatribe. Thanks!]
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Classic example of the sort of depserate inflated non-argument I have long come to expect from those like yourself.

    Like the other military drones against whom my analyses were repeatedly vindicated as wholly accurate (quite a few with more than ample supporting references) long before you arrived, you are free to cling to whatever unquestioned pro-MIC drivel you choose to surrendered your critical reasoning faculties.

    That I rarely bother these days to expend the effort to provide extensive research references (also not necessary on a topic addressing the moral value judgement of the OP such as this) is readily understandable given the unwitting admissions found on the first page of responses.

    No sense going to any great lengths for those who find anything beyond 3 paragraphs or 2-3 syllables to be a burden. The same applies to those, like yourself, who demonstrate a continuous and willful evasion of any discussion of principle that might demand critical reevaluation of the public mythmaking/hero worship contained in the lead article.

    Also interesting to see your repeated need for group identification by the use of the term "we". Hard to think and speak for yourself after so much military indoctrination, I understand.

    Again you miss the point (wilfully I expect) - opinions have to be based on facts. If you cannot get those right you cannot expect us to take you seriously. you certainly cannot lecture people on looking behind the headlines and getting the true facts if you yourself are unable to look at the headlines and get the basics.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again with the "us" and the inflation of singular oversight to "facts". Not only desperate but intractably so.

    A fine example of the military PR mindset in action.

    As I said before, you go right ahead and absorb the drivel of that article without question of or reflection upon the broader principles of the matter, NQA. It's what you've been trained to do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually I was using the plural as much because its a generic issue (people getting facts wrong and then expecting the rest of their argument to be taken seriously).

    However if you like I shall rephrase 'If you can't get the detail right why should I have any confidence in the big picture you present?'

    And to be honest you really need to brush up on your knowledge about military training. The unthinking automan pretty much died out as soldier in the mid-nineteenth century. Training now encourages officers to think about the issues and exercise our critical facilities - in fact if you fail to be able to do so you're unlikely to graduate. After all officers need to be able to make critical decisions based often incomplete and contradictory information when tired, cold, wet, hungry and whilst being shot at.

    The British army also likes its officers to understand the political parameters under which it is operating, both locally and internationally. Men fight better when they know the grand strategic/political objectives, so officers need to know the background and to be able to discuss it with their men in an open manner.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A truly sad indictment against the education today's kids must be receiving if such obvious reasoning escapes so many.

    I bet former generations have said similar things about your generation :)
    (Might also be worthwhile to know that it will probably be our generation taking care of you in your old age - so maybe you should lower the hostility towards us a notch or two?)

    Either way, RIP - and best of wishes to the two families who must be devestated.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ive no hostility toward your generation, more a case of lament for a clear incapacity in critical reasoning and consistent application of principle.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, thanks to you two

    Ive lost the will to stay and be bothered to read this thread, and the origional point as well.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LoL, Clandestine sounds like a total disillusioned moron, I bet he's a barrel of laughs…
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Again you miss the point (wilfully I expect) - opinions have to be based on facts.

    Not necessarily so, if this thread is anything to go by.

    The fact is that the guy in the story was a hired killer. People`s opinions don`t seem to be based on that fact.
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