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Comments
Kermit, spot on mate, it's not the boobs that are the problem, it's the attitude to the boobs.
Yes they market sex, but so what? They're "lifestyle" magazines and if that's the kind of lifestyle you want then fair play. I think you’re doing kids more of an injustice if you start taking away their ability to make decisions for themselves, based on what they’ve seen and experienced. Anyone with half a brain cell realises the world doesn't have to, and doesn't, operate in the way these magazines portray that it does. And as I said before, if when you take your head out of the magazine and look around you, you don't see the contrast, then you've got a bigger problems than a subscription to Zoo.
IMO it's the same cod shit that was banded about when people were claiming that computer games were turning youngsters violent. Firstly, if you want to watch violence then turn on the channel 4 news, and secondly, if you think beating or killing someone is "cool" then you're a fucking nutcase with no basic concept of empathy; something which I find hard to believe computer games have had much, if any, impact on.
Again, kids are people. They have the power of rational thought and I think you do more harm than good when you try to present to them a world which simply doesn’t exist. These lads mags are part of a society that they live in and if the kid has had even a modicum of decent parenting then they’ll be able to make reasoned decisions for themselves. If they aren’t capable of doing so then it’s not magazines that I point the finger of blame at.
See above
But they don't just "market sex". They market a particular view of sex. An objectified male view that presents women as available to anyone at any time merely to please male desire and fantasy. It presents women as objects, shorn of their subjectivity, as mere receptacles for men to wank over/into.
This is not healthy IMO.
and there was me swearing to myself not to get involved in this subject again after last time
I'm not interested in bubble-wrapping the world; taking off the blinkers when little johnny hits 18 saying "et viola, the real world". If you think percieved lifestyles have that much of a negtive impact then lets make sitcoms only appear after the watershed and make all films for adults only, cause neither portray real lifestyles.
They market one view of the world, plenty of other people are marketing their views of the world too. Don't tell me you've never knocked out a mix to a jazz mag, and i'm sure you turned out just fine. :razz:
I think it's an interesting debate as long as it doesn't turn in the normal raucous exchange of insults
It's more of a complex two way process. The market was there to a certain extent but the way that lads mags and porn etc has saturated popular culture also creates demand.
One which has become the dominant view. I feel I should start talking about ideology and hegemony here but I need to go the shop in a mo'.
Look up ideology and hegemony.
Yes I have, but that's not what we're talking about is it? What we're on about is the domination of porn and objectified views of women in popular culture.
Fuck you. :mad:
What exactly do you think lads get from these sort of publications that could be remotely construed as helpful or constructive?
It probably does. But I do take offence to Kermit implying that blokes who enjoy reading this type of media are incaple of treating women properly. I don't treat women as consumer items; when I was young I may have gone after girls simply because of their appearance simply for sex :wave:, but that's because i was young I've got a dick - it had nothing to do with these mags.
That fantasy was around long before these mags. You don't give us much credit, I can tell the differnce between fantasy and reality.
Tbh most of the claims regarding the sociological impact are pretty vague, it's always going to be spurious to try and make simplistic links between FHM, etc and male attitudes. (While it doesn't negate the claim that 'lads mags' are somehow damaging to society it's worth contrasting the treatment of women in countries where such magazines and pornography is widely available; in Britain, Holland, Scandinavia, most of the West - where there is still work to be done on achieving equality but things are pretty good - and then looking at the likes of Iran and Saudi Arabia where this stuff isn't available and women are treated as second class citizens).
I dunno about you, but I find it a little worrying when more and more women are getting breast implants, most of the female housemates in Big Brother have breast implants, there's a rise in eating disorders, more and more young people (especially young girls) want to grow up to be famous (just that - be famous. Not famous for doing anything in particular, just "famous"), in a recent survey a large proportion of men thought that women who dress a certain way are asking to be raped - none of that has anything to do with lad culture/lads mags and the normalisation of porn?
Good post.
I disagree. I think we've got a fairly broad cross section of people on this discussion board and i can't recall one poster mirroring the mentaility of these magazines. Fashion, sex and lifestyle obsession have been about much longer than these magazines and they'll continue to be about long after. As Skive says, these magazines don't create the market, it was there already.
I will do. The topics in general?
We're talking about "protecting" youngsters from the magazines and i disagree that they need protecting. I think it's part of life and anyone with modicum of sense is going to see it for what it is; something to giggle at while on the shitter.
I'm not entirely sure where i see porn domination in my day-to-day life. Some people are always going to objectify women and if that women is some quasi-celebrity who makes her money solely from shagging footballers and selling semi-nude pictures of herself, then i really couldn't care less.
Oh come on Blagsta, you don't think for one second that BB represents anything other than the crem-dala-crem of first rate nutcases?
I read of a trend among Asian women (not sure if in Asia or among Asian women in the West) of skin bleaching to look more caucasian. There's a lot of worrying stuff like increasing eating disorders and kids wanting cosmetic surgery but I think that's going away from the issue of 'lads mags' - it's a bigger issue and unfortunately these things aren't going to change. (Moving FHM and Loaded to the top shelf certainly isn't a solution, not that anybody has said it is of course)
There was a thread not that long ago where some male posters seemed to think it was OK to grope women in clubs. But that's not really the point. The point is that these magazines have far more power than you or I do - they dominant and shape popular culture.
Well no, its a far more complex relationship than that. The media, advertising etc has a role in creating culture and consumer desire - otherwise companies wouldn't spend millions on advertising. Its not a linear one way process though, its a complex negotiation. Reams of cultural studies books have been written about this sort of thing.
Yes. How the dominant idealogy in society becomes what people see as the normal and natural.
I don't think that "protecting" is the right word here.
Its not as simple as that - these things influence popular culture in varied and subtle ways. See my post above.
Lads mags, lap dancing clubs, Big Brother etc etc
Way to miss the point entirely.
For the record I think women's glossies like cosmo and heat are just as bad.
Firstly, you picked out one point among many (the easiest one to dispute) and secondly, Big Brother and the attendant celebrity culture are a massive part of contemporary popular culture. Its one of the biggest shows on telly for a start.
I think he's on about the contestants themselves and not the people who watch it.
Which is releavnt to this topic...how?
I think they're all part of the same thing.
Thousands of people apply to be on it every year.
And only the nutters usually get on. Are you trying to say BB itslef objectifies males and females?
I agree there, they are a small part. But a part nonetheless.