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I think being rude is a tenuous link to posting style.
By that logic do you think there should be absolutely no rules and regulations governing what Tesco do? It's not about me, it's about our government currently feels 6 hours trading on Sunday - a traditional day of rest is sufficient. And anybody that is unable to get what they want in 6 hours on a Sunday or on 6 other days of all day opening in the week is imo pathetic. My main problem with this debate is that there is no reason to change the status quo.
You want to impose your longer Sunday day on me ffs. If Sunday opening hours are extended Sunday workers will have to work longer. And Sunday workers don't want to! - Extend Sunday hours and I cannot have my shorter day, I'll be pressured to work longer hours on a Sunday if the shop I work in is allowed to open longer...
Have you ever been outside of Britain? The French, Italians and Belgians seem to manage with hardly anything open at all on a Sunday. Personally I think we have a nice balance, with people still being able to shop but workers getting a shorter day. I have little time for people that want to ruin that.
So a chance in circumstances means that they will have to consider the terms of their contracts? The one's that are unhappy with it will either renegotiate it, or move to a job with terms that are more favourable to them leaving the supermarkets with staff that are happy to work the hours in their contract. It's not rocket science.
I wouldn't be imposing anything on you. Your employer may offer you revised terms (working longer on a Sunday), but they will in no way be imposed on you. You're free to reject any contract they offer you. Again, please tell me your argument for why supermarket staff deserve Sunday off, but not other service sector workers. Seems to me like it's just because you are one?
That's a straw man argument, and i suspect you know it. I also don't see how someone who is unable to complete their weekly chores is "pathetic". The whole thread has revolved around people either wanting or not wanting extended hours on a Sunday, so i suspect there is reason to change the staus quo.
If people are contracted to 10-4 on a Sunday then that is what they are contracted to. Any given store would only be able to open if it were to source staff willing to fill in the extra hours. It couldn't change contracts just because the law on opening hours changed.
No one in imposing anything on you. Moreover, you appear to be speaking for all Sunday workers, which inherantly is impossible, and hence more than likely wrong.
Once you get over your knee jerk reaction to people wanting longer opening hours, surely you can see how it would be advantageous to some people?
But the shop owner relies on its staff to do the work while they're lounging about watching the telly. :yeees: Freedom for whom is it really?
The thing is, most of these people who do these jobs are in no position to call it quits to go search for a different job with better working hours. The Tesco worker is hardly there because he really wants to be doing such a job.
hahaha, it's so easy to say such things. Of course employees can tell their employers to fuck off, but the chances of it actually happening are next to none. Few can afford to, and they shop owners bloody well know that and are certainly willing to take advantage of it.
And by your logic, why do the 9-5 office people deserve Saturdays and Sundays off while I should be fine with working long shifts 7 days a week?
I can see both sides of the argument, and have often taken advantage of shops being open on sundays or official holidays, but I seriously don't think that society is gaining anything by doing it. People keep shouting for consumer rights, but the consumer is also the worker.
I would rather see us revert to more similar opening hours and an attitude to shopping and consuming that is more like our European "friends" (depending on your stance) on the continent. But this is where people are going to differ. I lived in Germany for months, worked a pretty damn taxing job on a shift basis and still managed to get my groceries in. This in a country where the overwhelming majority of supermarkets close at 8pm at the latest (the smaller shops having closed much earlier) and a far larger proportion of fresh produce from small suppliers is purchased. No one starves over there, and I can assure you they work some crazy hours and still manage to get down to Lidl for anything they may need. Like I said before, I can understand some people's lust for convenience but I think it goes too far when people are seeking to extend the opening hours of a supermarket so it never closes. That just isn't necessary in my opinion and it actually scares me to imagine a supermarket that never closes... and that there is such a volume of people who do deem it necessary.
The smoking ban is a much bigger infringement of freedom on individuals and businesses. That actually denies choice...Restricting big shops to 6 hours on a Sunday is nothing more than a mild inconvenience to some people.
No it's not just because I am one...It's really because I don't see any need for change and I think Sunday (although not for religious reasons) should perhaps be a day of rest - and shorter hours promote that ethos. I only work Sundays so working longer hours on a Sunday wouldn't hugely affect me actually. But I don't want to work longer on a Sunday, nor do most other shop workers, longer hours are not in the interests of my employer and I see no reason for those working full time in the week to be denied a shorter day on a Sunday. Really, if 24/7 hours in the week, all day on a Saturday and 6 hours on a Sunday isn't enough you need to get a life.
2) Whoever thinks that Sunday is a shorter day of work is disillusioned. Retail works 24/7 365 days a year. Just coz the shop is closed to customers it doesn't mean there is no one working in it.
3) Most of the people working sundays are part timers. People that choose to work Sundays. When retailers hire people for weekend trade, the "working Sundays" bit is clearly discussed and the people that apply WANT to work on a Sunday.
4) Shopping on a Sunday in a supermarket is very stressful mainly because you have the same ammount of people like lets say on a Saturday to fit in in 6 hours on sunday, the queues are longer and everybody rushes around.
5) What defines us humans is the freedom of choice. So if someone wants to work on a Sunday, let them make that choice. Soon 9-5 will disappear and people will be able to do their work when they want to.
Sunday is just another day.
Why not let your employer decide that by removing legislation? If it's really not in their interests, then nothing will change will it? And I'll ask you yet again, why is it only supermarket workers that deserve this privilage?
re: 4) Having been to the supermarket many-a-time on Sundays that was not my experience at all, I generally find them to be very quiet, especially as it gets on toward closing time.
5) I don't know if you work/have worked in retail, and everyone's experience will be different. But mine was that there is very little "freedom of choice" once you are contracted by a retail outlet. I envy your idealistic view of the future when you forsee everyone working "when they want". Any chance of getting a job wherever it is that you work? I have to disagree completely that "soon" 9-5 will disappear, and also with a seperate point made by I'm With Stupid concerning everyone "soon" opting to buy everything online. I can't either of those things happening, myself. However if we had a world run entirely by consumer wants then I guess we'd all have to resign ourselves to working around the clock and having no distinct order in our working or home lives as the needs of the consumer may dictate otherwise. Even if that did happen, I can't fathom people actually supporting it. Madness.
All this talk of the "right" to go to the supermarket on Sunday evening is a bit mind-boggling to me. There are "rights" I would fight for, and those I think I can damn well do without. When it comes to the rights of the shopworkers vs the rights of the gluttonous consumer I know whose corner I'd take, everytime. It's all well and good to wax lyrical about how supermarket workers would choose to work a full day on Sunday when you're not actually in that position, I'm sure the majority of M-F, 9-5 workers on here would absolutely spit nails if their employer suddenly decided that the customers needed to be served on Saturday and Sunday, too. Or would it be alright to get Tuesday and Friday off instead? Or maybe changing days off every week as most full-time supermarket employees do? I think it is imperative to provide a consistent evening off and Sunday trading laws do that to perfection. I wouldn't change it at all, but obviously some people get really bad cravings for a ham sandwich while they're watching Heartbeat. Or something :chin:
First of all, who asserts that our leaders are supposed to be Christian?
Secondly, if any law is in place to prevent a ribbing from any relgion, then things are a lot worse than i thought.
Unless I'm mistaken in which case I apologise I remember you have argued against my freedom, my right to smoke and against the freedom and right of pub owners to decide on whether people can smoke or not in their pub...
Freedom is balancing your freedom against the freedom of other people. Your freedom to unlimited shopping hours on a Sunday would be indisputably at the expense of the freedom to a shorter working day for Sunday shop workers. You have no understanding of retail if you think longer Sunday opening hours would not result in people working unwanted longer hours. - And Sunday is different, I'm not a Christian but I have no problem with the idea of Sunday being a day of rest. By turning Sunday into another Saturday society does not benefit.
Now in the case of smoking in pubs, my freedom to smoke against others freedom not to breath in smoke can be solved by separate enclosed rooms where possible. (That there will be a total ban consequently infringes the freedom of smokers and pub owners).
Most of the shopping on Sundays is between 1130 and 1430 ( if the store is open 10-4) It's at those times the shops get very busy.
I've worked in retail as an employee and an employer, and i had no problems in either cases.
Also, you wouldn't want to work where I work. It pays well but there's no job satisfaction. Looking for another job at the moment...
How many people you know work for all those 7 hours? I know none. I find most of them are posting threads on websites. Or writing emails... You can say, yeah but i can do that because i finished my work. OK if that is the case go home, why should I pay you to sit on your ass and do fuck all. So what I see is a change where the workday will be something like 10-430 with a half hour lunch break or along those lines.
Are you saying the world isn't run by consumer demand?
No one has said anything about the right to shop on a Sunday.
And no one is discussing the right of shopworkers.
We are talking about the willingness of the shopworkers to work sundays and willingness of shoppers to shop on sundays.
If the business required that the customers need to be served on the weekend than yes, the business will have to change the working hours, it's quite obvious.
Things change.
And that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Now enough dodging the question, why only Supermarkets?
It wasn't going that way naturally at all. In plenty of private clubs (included in the ban) the bulk of members smoked and would democratically vote against any ban. And like it or not the market has provided very few entirely non-smoking establishments reflecting the limited public demand for non-smoking pubs, etc. I'm not arguing for the right to smoke everywhere, I believe where possible pubs should have separate rooms for smokers and non-smokers. It's pretty intolerant not to accept that as a compromise. It is slightly hypocritical to restrict Sunday opening hours but oppose smoking bans - but the latter is a far greater restriction on the freedom of smokers. The former really is just a mild inconvenience and nothing more. I really do not believe anybody who claims that 6 hours on a Sunday is some major infringement on their freedom. On the other hand telling the owner of a pub whether I can have a cigarette or not is a pretty glaring limitation on his freedom to run his business. (And those that rejected the separate enclosed spaces compromise are indisputably forcing their anti-smoking values on smokers...)
But anyway if there is a service that we need to have longer opening hours it's banks, many are Mon-Fri 9.30-4.30pm and closed at the weekends...(Although compared to banks abroad we really can't complain).
Not just supermarkets - department stores/high street stuff too. As you well know a cap on Sunday opening is not feasible for the likes of restaurants and hospitals. Tbh I do not actually care massively either way, the whole debate is a waste of time because there is no real reason (or massive genuine public demand) to change the status quo.
ETA: Why can't you have a cap on restaurant opening hours? Surely you can go for one evening without having a meal out, or a game of ten-pin bowling, or going to the cinema?
It's partly the impact on society. Unlimited Sunday opening hours turns Sunday into another Saturday. It's not a religious thing for me, I just quite like the present ethos of Sunday and I don't want to change that. Restaurants are different, regardless of opening hours you buy the same amount of food in Tesco broadly speaking - for a restaurant if hours are restricted it would harm the business. (Ditto with the other industries you speak of). There isn't a strong link between sales and longer hours for supermarkets, people don't buy more bread and milk because the shop is open longer.