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I put it to you...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I put it to you that the most emotionally damaging way for a loved one to die is suicide. Discuss.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    I put it to you that the most emotionally damaging way for a loved one to die is suicide. Discuss.
    i reckon over work is as bad ...especialy working on sundays.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    I put it to you that the most emotionally damaging way for a loved one to die is suicide. Discuss.

    Of course, well being raped then murdered afterwards is up there too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    I put it to you that the most emotionally damaging way for a loved one to die is suicide. Discuss.

    I'd imagine it certainly has to be up there. Murdered at the hands of another loved one perhaps?

    Any particular reason for the topic?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Thankfully I haven't had anyone die since I was 9, but I'd imagine how they died is not important in how emotionally damaging it was.
    What would make a difference, I think, is whether I'd have expected it. If it was someone murdering them suddenly or they died in an accident it would be more damaging than if I knew they would die soon anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suggest that suicide is the most distructive because of the wide open arena for those left behind to blame themselves.

    Sophia, do you not think that to be driven to take your own life, that you yourself would be under enormous personal torture?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Sophia, do you not think that to be driven to take your own life, that you yourself would be under enormous personal torture?

    Emotional torture in most cases, not physical. The sad truth is is that lots of people go under personal torture and get on with it. Some people crumble and take their own life. Why? Who knows?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's equal with watching them die of an incurable disease. And any other way of dying which involves not being able to help them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Incurable diseases are totally out your hands. But there will always be that margin with suicide of if only I had been there, if only I'd said such and such or done such and such a thing, or ad infintitum
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep. Is definately up ther. Trouble is thou, wheni felt like tht, it didt occur to me bout leaving people behnid, and how they would feel . The question of 'what fi' will be there to the loved ones.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think it's really very plausible to compare quantitatively the pains of losing a loved one. People handle it very differently, and even a relative just dying peacefully in their sleep could easily be extremely emotionally damaging.

    I can see your point, but I don't think the pain of losing someone is very easy to compare between individuals.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it would depend on the circumstances. Each case would be unique. Someone who dies of drug addiction for instance would cause as much pain to loved ones, probably more, than someone who has emotional problems and kills themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Of course, well being raped then murdered afterwards is up there too.

    No, coz in that case i would try to seek the person out and kill him which would at least bring some satisfaction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i reckon over work is as bad ...especialy working on sundays.
    :lol: What a morbid topic though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    No, coz in that case i would try to seek the person out and kill him which would at least bring some satisfaction.

    For which you'd get in trouble for. It will also make you as bad as the person who killed a loved one of yours...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont see how you can say that there is one worse way than others. It totally depends on the individual, and I think ANY way is probably as bad as another.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes, that's why we're having a debate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I think it would depend on the circumstances. Each case would be unique. Someone who dies of drug addiction for instance would cause as much pain to loved ones, probably more, than someone who has emotional problems and kills themselves.

    This is true, and I also agree that this is an incredibly morbid topic. But, anyway...

    I would have to concur with the point made about a person who has committed suicide having taken their own life [even bearing in mind the emotional trauma and torture they would've suffered] and often despite their wholly desperate and bleak state of mind they have come to some acceptance about their suicide and that can sometimes provide comfort to those they leave behind. Whereas if they were murdered then they have had their life taken from them and possibly by utterly horrific means - which you may never know the full truth about. Of course these are generic instances I'm talking about, there's no way to categorise which is worse and which would cause the least emotional damage to loved ones.

    My experience of a loved one committing suicide was truly dreadful; but I never had the "what if I had done this..." thoughts that seem to plague so many people afterwards. I think he was not long for this world, no matter what anyone did for him... and they did as much as possible. The most damaging death of a loved one I have experienced was my ex's best friend who died in a terrible traffic accident (knocked over by an unlicensed, over-the-limit bus driver who was going the wrong way down a street) one day into a "lads holiday" in Bratislava. Everything about it seemed so unbelievable and horrific; just being so happy one minute and then you're suddenly wiped out... and all in front of your best friends' faces. It doesn't even really bear thinking about, it's so horrifying :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Horrifying for who?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Erm, horrifying and damaging to the people who witnessed it and the people left behind. Obviously not to the person themselves, as he wouldn't have known a thing about it other than a split second - so if you mean which way is more emotionally damaging to the person in question then my answer would be different. I understood that you meant which was the most damaging to the loved ones?

    It's an incredibly tough subject.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's what I meant in my original question, I thought I would make sure I was certain what you meant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I see, well yeah I think I've given an answer as best I can. I'm not really sure though, it's so circumstantial and open to different interpretation I suppose.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes indeed, as is the case with all debate, the more specific you are the more unable you are to come to any conclusion, there are too many parameters to clarify and agree meaning on. We can only reall come to some sort of conclusion in the general case.

    I was sufficiently crushed by the death of my mother after long illness, who can say if it'd been worse had she left by choice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, losing someone in anyway is shit, when my boyfriend comitted suicide it was pretty shit. There are loads of shit things that happen in life though, your own life either goes on or it doesn't, you have to make that choice. Is it worse to lose someone another way? I wouldn't know personally but I think each person's struggles are relative to them, so something I might find a breeze to deal with might burden another person forever and visa versa. We do have a high level of suicide in young men in this country though, almost like a hidden epidemic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    so something I might find a breeze to deal with might burden another person forever and visa versa.
    Exactly. I think its impossible to have an answer for it, unless we`re debating what would be worse for YOU personally Fiend? In which case I still have no idea. I think maybe it would be worse for me if my partner got tortured and murdered and me unable to stop it, than him taking his own life, because if he took his own life, then it would mean he really wanted to go, which would be horrific also, but still his choice.

    Strange debate really :crazyeyes
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I lost my dad to suicide, i'd say it's pretty high up there for fucking you up stakes.
    Theres all the unanswered questions you will never get answered.
    That said i'm sure other ways are terrible also.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    For which you'd get in trouble for. It will also make you as bad as the person who killed a loved one of yours...

    I might or might not get into trouble. (i can always plead temporary insanity) Also, whether it will make me as bad is open to opinion.
    Eye for an eye!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    unless we`re debating what would be worse for YOU personally Fiend?

    Not at all, and this debate is no more strange than the one that established (ish) that suicide was a purely selfish act. I just felt that it would be most helpful to start from a premise and go from there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The OP is predicated on the notion that there is some kind of objective emotional scale where we can keep tally on hurt and pain. A load of nonsense in other words.
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