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Yes, we're talking nearly 20 years ago. What I was taking issue with was dis's insistence that people don't leave jobs in the state education sector for the private sector because they pay more. Of course they do, to deny otherwise is idiotic.
Yeh that's one reason of course but there are loads of other reasons too. The way you write your posts make it seem as though money and class is the be all and end all of life. It's not.
Teachers, believe it or not, tend to enjoy teaching. If their job is more about crowd control and involves teaching kids who don't want to learn and who go home to parent(s) who don't support the school then I can hardly blame them for seeking a better, more fulfilling job. Common sense, surely?
I don't think the pay is the main consideration and the pension arrangements tend to be less favourable, so I think there are other reasons for teachers leaving failing schools.
Yes, I'm well aware of that thanks. If you actually look at the context in which I posted my point, you'll see what it was referring to - pointing out that dis was full of shit as usual.
We knew that already.
It never hurts to remind people.
Privatise schools, separate them from the state but give a parent a voucher for each child to pay for the cost of schooling. The state still pays but schools are given greater autonomy. Parents have more choice, standards are raised and what are at the moment expensive private schools suddenly become more affordable.
Not at all...It would mean more people can get a decent education and not just 'people with money.'
I can't remember calling you an extremist...Although you were a sab weren't you? :rolleyes: And well socialism in practice is pretty nasty. But meh there's more to life than politics Blag and I wouldn't call you nasty myself...just misguided.
How would that raise standards?
How?
Haven't got much of a memory have you?
You don't actually have a clue what I advocate.
I'd call you a cunt personally.
Increased competition and less bureaucracy/red tape.
The difference in cost between a private and state education isn't a lot. If parents can put the cost of the state education towards a private education it's suddenly a lot more affordable - in areas where the decent schools are private those that currently can't afford it have more of a chance. (And the fact that a private education costs a similar amount to a state education - yet the former produces higher standards is proof that the private sector can use resources more efficiently).
:rolleyes: Well er sorry, I've made quite a lot (too many) posts on this site and some of us have other things to do so we don't remember everything...
Real mature...Resort to insults when you get a bit frustrated. :rolleyes: See ya later Blag, I've got better things to do.
Sorry, are you completley mad? I fail to see how this works.
It's about your attitude towards education. If you want to learn you will learn, you can't blame where you learn.
Most of the schools i've been to have been good, esp primary and high school but my education came from my will to learn things not because i was in a private or public school.
No one can push you but yourself and your parents.
The sooner you realize as a young person that you can only really trust yourself in life to do well, the better.
What's got my pants in a twist today!!!!!:grump: :chin:
It isn't fair but if I won the lottery and had kids, I'd want them to have the best possible start in life (and the best education) and I don't blame anyone else from wanting the same thing for their kids as well.
I know a chap that went to Havard Uni on scholarship and just by putting on his CV he went to one of the most well respected Universities in the world he can walk into any job he wants in the city.
Life isn't fair ...
Obviously, some very intelligent people aren't academic at all but if everybody were iven the same chance at education we'd be closer to a meritocracy.
Agreed. I got a rather rubbish education at secondary school (which is why I ended up with mainly Ds at GCSE) because of the state of education at my school. I remember seceral times, asking friends of mine for help because I wasn't getting what I needed at school.
my english teacher at the time was crap too...we were a top set and got level 4's and a few 5s in our mocks, then she left to have a baby before our real ones and we all did loads better
I would prefer that everyone has access to the best teachers, regardless of social and economic background.
Well, of course it will be.
It's a proven fact that a child's academic achievement is directly linked to the economic status of their parents. The more money the parents have, the more children are able to learn.
Private schools, of course, don't let poor people in.
And I'd rather that the "ruffians" weren't tossed onto the scrapheap because private schools deny them any chance of an education.
Was there ever another teacher you could get help from? I sometimes did this if I needed help, but the teacher wasn't around.
Religious schools funded by the state don't let people in if they don't belong to the right religion. Many comprehensives don't let people in if they don't have the right postcode. (Live in a wealthy area and your chances of the local comp being decent is a lot higher). Not really any different to private schools. Grammar schools meanwhile base their admissions on merit.
Private schools have bursaries and scholarships some of which are very generous from what I've heard. Who are private schools denying an education to? They're independent non-profit organisations that support themselves through fees, they don't receive government funding and they couldn't continue to provide their services without fees - I can't really see where they have some kind of binding obligation to educate people for free. (But many do have generous programmes that do just that).
I don't know if you're jealous or something that you didn't get a private education but it's frankly none of your business if some people decide to educate themselves independently of the state. It's their decision and in a free society people should be able to receive an education independently of the state...But in the meantime it surely makes sense to try and improve existing underperforming schools and better the current system than punish grammar schools and private schools for being successful...
Assisted places is something different. Lots of private schools have scholarships which are nothing to do with Tony Blair or the government. Many are based on stuff like academic merit, skill in a particular area (sports, drama, etc) although some are based on need...It'll vary between schools, someone who came to my school for Sixth Form (not a private school) previously went to a private school on a scholarship. Obviously scholarships are always going to be very hard to get and there will be a lot of competition hence they're not really a solution, the solution is obv how to improve existing schools that aren't doing well.
I don't think that scholarships are awarded on need without the academic/skill criteria being met too. Scholarships can be a pain in the arse though as they put you at the mercy of the school, who in my experience make subtle reminders that you have a scholarship that can be withdrawn whenever they want t o blackmail you into doing something... whereas, in my experience, state schools don't try to make you do anything and are happy as long as you turn up and aren't disruptive.
There is sometimes stuff available based on exceptional need. Most are based on an academic skill or talent in a particular area but I know of someone who got a scholarship based on need/exceptional circumstances.
I've no idea but I'd imagine it's something that varies greatly between schools. Although it's not as if anybody is forced to apply for a scholarship and those lucky enough to get one should probably be grateful.
Ooh, that's interesting. I'd never heard of this. I might have a look-see at what my local private schools have on offer.
snort, yeah real 'grateful'. I guess that's a personality thing/ depends on the school. As for being forced, I think a scholarship would usually be the parents' idea, particularly when a child is younger.
I'm not too sure how it works in the case I know of...I would imagine it cannot be simply based on need otherwise there would be no way of distinguishing between applicants. It might be an initiative specifically aimed at helping people who wouldn't normally go or it might be just exceptional circumstances for people who have got in...But there is stuff available so it's worth looking into if it's relevant to you.
Probably. And in the long term the kid might recognise the benefit and be pretty grateful for the chance they've had...Not the same thing but I feel pretty lucky and glad to have went to a decent grammar school that pushed me. (But I hated my parents for sending me there when I was 11).
Rather than criticizing their existence, be grateful that they exist as an option and do something about the failing state schools which you all seem to complain about.
Adress the true problem.
Not strictly true. My old school and a host of the super-elite public schools took a lot of people from 'poor' backgrounds on the strength of certain talents. For example, we had 2 kids from inner-city Southampton who were on 100% music scholardships and at other schools, they provide a hell of a lot of sport scholarships provided the kids aren't complete dumbarses. Eton (our big rival school) still admit 3 kids a year on King's scholarships (100% scholarships) and most of the big schools have similar schemes so the less financially advantaged but very intelligent can still get a good education (though I'm sceptical of the quality of education at Eton
Private institutions are exactly that - private. They admit whomever they want so you could say that they are denying them an education in the same way that Goldman Sachs are denying me an income. They can do what the fuck they like. They are not obliged to give the 'ruffians' any education.
Its also worth remembering that private schools do the government and education funding a favour. They get nothing from the state for the kids they educate leaving that money left over for other things.
Education funding would be in dire straights if all those in private schools left and went to state school instead. There are not enough places and there is not enough money.
The 'rich' private school parents are subsidising state education as they pay for it and their taxes, and then they pay again for their own childs private education.
GRammer schools perform as well as selective private schools.