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Private schooling?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Yeah that's true, you do have a point. I would hazard a guess that it's pretty competitive though, which is another thing I have reservations about [competing to get into a school].

    Do many/any private schools still have entrance exams?
    yeah. i was on an assissted place scheme. i took an entrance exam and then had an interview. when you're 10 you don't really realise the importance of it all tbh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote:
    yeah. i was on an assissted place scheme. i took an entrance exam and then had an interview. when you're 10 you don't really realise the importance of it all tbh.
    how do you interview a 10 year old? what questions do they ask
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    how do you interview a 10 year old? what questions do they ask
    i applied for 2 private schools and got into them both but they had very different interviews.

    one of them was me on my own with a teacher. she asked me about myself (hobbies etc). i then had to read out a passage from a book and then fill in my own ending. and then i was given some mechanical object and i had to explain how it worked.

    for the other interview we had to sit ina classroom and answer maths and english questions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Private schooling is completely immoral, and should be immediately banned, with all property belonging to private schools being confiscated.

    At the very least private schools should lose their charitable status and their tax breaks, and have to pay full tax on all their land and profit.

    The idea of deciding schooling on the income of mummy and daddy, and not on merit, is completely abhorrent.

    That said, if I could afford it, I would give my children every immoral and disgusting advantage going.

    The idea that private schools let anyone in is laughable. The idea that they don't decide on income is even more ridiculous- it doesn't matter how bright you are, if you can't pay the fees you don't get in, unless you're one of 2 million students trying to get 3 bursaries.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    It isn't fair in two ways. Firstly people who go to them are getting a 'better' education just because mummy and daddy have a bit of money. Secondly it seems a lot of privately schooled people have no idea what the real world is like from looking at some of that sort here at uni. They dont mix with others and stick to their own...
    Kermit wrote:
    Private schooling is completely immoral, and should be immediately banned, with all property belonging to private schools being confiscated.

    At the very least private schools should lose their charitable status and their tax breaks, and have to pay full tax on all their land and profit.

    The idea of deciding schooling on the income of mummy and daddy, and not on merit, is completely abhorrent.

    That said, if I could afford it, I would give my children every immoral and disgusting advantage going.

    The idea that private schools let anyone in is laughable. The idea that they don't decide on income is even more ridiculous- it doesn't matter how bright you are, if you can't pay the fees you don't get in, unless you're one of 2 million students trying to get 3 bursaries.

    I go to private school not because "mummy and daddy" can afford it, actually we'e scraping the barrel for money and i have a perfect experience of what the real word is like! I go to private school because my local secondary schools are quite frankly shit and as im dyslexic i would be left behind, stuggling and needed extra help being in a class full of most, not all, but most kids who don't really giving a damn and disrupting other people education; people actually who actually do want to learn. I work better in a smaller class, being givin the help that i need by teachers who can and realise dyslexia is real! I'm nowhere near the worst in my class and if some of the other people in my year or school, even attempted going to a state school they wouldn't have a chance!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Do many/any private schools still have entrance exams?

    In the all-girls'/boys' schools in Plymouth, they have entrance exams.
    is it fair that some kids can get a better education because their parents have money - thus usually getting a better education? And that the rest who can't afford it have to make do with usual schools?

    This is a fair point, but I don't really understand the problem. For me, it would've been nice to have gone to a school where we pushed alot more to do our best - at GCSE, a few of the teachers didn't care about what you did in their lessons as long as you weren't chucking stuff about and being disruptive.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Private schooling is completely immoral, and should be immediately banned, with all property belonging to private schools being confiscated.

    At the very least private schools should lose their charitable status and their tax breaks, and have to pay full tax on all their land and profit.

    The idea of deciding schooling on the income of mummy and daddy, and not on merit, is completely abhorrent.

    That said, if I could afford it, I would give my children every immoral and disgusting advantage going.

    The idea that private schools let anyone in is laughable. The idea that they don't decide on income is even more ridiculous- it doesn't matter how bright you are, if you can't pay the fees you don't get in, unless you're one of 2 million students trying to get 3 bursaries.
    unless you're parents can afford the fees, or you're exeptionally bright to make their results look better...then you're basically not worthy
    thats the way it appears anyway - all children should be given equal oppurtunities yet they're not
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Do many/any private schools still have entrance exams?

    Yes a lot do have entrance exams, i was interviewed instead and when i was accepted i had some basic a maths exam/english/verbal reasonning exam.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    unless you're parents can afford the fees, or you're exeptionally bright to make their results look better...then you're basically not worthy
    thats the way it appears anyway - all children should be given equal oppurtunities yet they're not

    Totally agreed here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I go to private school not because "mummy and daddy" can afford it, actually we'e scraping the barrel for money and i have a perfect experience of what the real word is like! I go to private school because my local secondary schools are quite frankly shit and as im dyslexic i would be left behind, stuggling and needed extra help being in a class full of most, not all, but most kids who don't really giving a damn and disrupting other people education; people actually who actually do want to learn. I work better in a smaller class, being givin the help that i need by teachers who can and realise dyslexia is real! I'm nowhere near the worst in my class and if some of the other people in my year or school, even attempted going to a state school they wouldn't have a chance!!

    That makes me laugh. As one of the more able pupils in a not very good state school, my experience was working at the level of the slowest pupil, as was the experience of friends in other state schools. Getting left behind wasn't a problem, it was sitting twiddling my thumbs whilst everyone else did their work that I had finished 20 minutes ago.

    I personally don't think its right that those with more money can afford better schooling, wealth shouldn't matter in education. However, if I'm in a position to afford private schooling if I have children, I'll do it. As Kermit said, I'd give my children every immoral disgusting advantage I could.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That makes me laugh. As one of the more able pupils in a not very good state school, my experience was working at the level of the slowest pupil, as was the experience of friends in other state schools. Getting left behind wasn't a problem, it was sitting twiddling my thumbs whilst everyone else did their work that I had finished 20 minutes ago.

    I was like that various points during my time at school as well. Always finished before everyone else and was rarely given anything to do whilst everyone else finished their work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it is a bit unfair but that's life. Plus you can still do your 11+ and end up in a grammar school, I come from a relatively poor family and ended up in one of the top schools in Northern Ireland, got a brilliant education and am very grateful for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Well it is a bit unfair but that's life. Plus you can still do your 11+ and end up in a grammar school, I come from a relatively poor family and ended up in one of the top schools in Northern Ireland, got a brilliant education and am very grateful for it.

    Only if you live in an area that still has grammar schools.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Only if you live in an area that still has grammar schools.

    Northern Ireland is slightly different because they're everywhere, usually with Church influence. Mine was run by priests! :shocking:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    theres no grammar schools around me anymore - or i would have gone to one
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That makes me laugh. As one of the more able pupils in a not very good state school, my experience was working at the level of the slowest pupil, as was the experience of friends in other state schools. Getting left behind wasn't a problem, it was sitting twiddling my thumbs whilst everyone else did their work that I had finished 20 minutes ago.

    Well thats your experience but in my old school there were bright people to, (and so am i, i just need an extra boost is all) but the teachers only gave a damn about them, if you weren't up to the top-of-the-classes standard you were left behind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Private schooling is completely immoral

    How? Is a parent home schooling their child immoral? Why should the state have a monopoly over education? If people wish to educate themselves privately that's their business. And in some areas many parents would argue sending their kids to a local underachieving state school is immoral if they can avoid it.
    Kermit wrote:
    and should be immediately banned, with all property belonging to private schools being confiscated.

    Totalitarian.

    Kermit wrote:
    At the very least private schools should lose their charitable status and their tax breaks, and have to pay full tax on all their land and profit.

    Private schools are non-profitable...
    Kermit wrote:
    The idea of deciding schooling on the income of mummy and daddy, and not on merit, is completely abhorrent.

    I agree. However, how is that any different to most comprehensives? There's a correlation between the prosperity of an area and the standard of a school. If you live in a rich area there's a much higher chance of you getting a better education. The quality of education dependent on postcode and house prices is deciding schooling on parental income surely? And er I think you'll find decent private schools also select on merit, a lot have pretty tough entry tests. - But generally, I do agree with you, which is why I support some state schools being grammar schools. (Tbh I admit having attended a grammar school that I've benefited from it, I think others should be able to benefit too. Unfortunately many MPs who benefited from grammar schools disagree...)
    Kermit wrote:
    That said, if I could afford it, I would give my children every immoral and disgusting advantage going.

    Lol, that's the thing. Even Diane Abbott sent her kid to City of London School and I wouldn't condemn her for it. She did what every parent would do if they could afford to.
    Kermit wrote:
    The idea that private schools let anyone in is laughable. The idea that they don't decide on income is even more ridiculous- it doesn't matter how bright you are, if you can't pay the fees you don't get in, unless you're one of 2 million students trying to get 3 bursaries.

    You're exaggerating and making generalisations. Lots of private schools have extremely generous bursaries and specific initiatives to help bright and poor students and some don't. Some have generous financial aid programmes and lots of scholarships and some don't.

    Of course a voucher system would be a lot fairer and make private education affordable for many parents who can't consider it at the moment.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Yes it is unfair. All schools tbh should be state run... there have been large amounts of cheating with hte private schooling system and they often often get more "help" that is allowed on their coursework... meaning of course, better grades.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    Had my parents been able to afford for both me and my brother to go private, we would have done but they were worried about what people might think - especially with my brother having mild aspergers syndrome. So you can't distinguish which one to send, the gifted one (sorry to sound arrogant but i've always been very able) or the one with slight learning difficulties?
    id have sent neither if i couldnt afford to send both too.

    Politically I hate the idea of private schools, BUT, my mum didnt enter me for the 11+ because she thought there were already too many exams for children, and she also thought if youre going to do well, youll do well wherever you go. Unfortunatly this isnt always the case, and i DREAD the thought of my son havign a similar experience of a comprehensive school as I did. If I could afford to send him to a good private school then I wouldnt hesitate, although if the local state school had a good reputation then i maybe wouldnt.
    My personal politics go out of the window a bit when Im worried about my own childs education.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    id have sent neither if i couldnt afford to send both too.

    Politically I hate the idea of private schools, BUT, my mum didnt enter me for the 11+ because she thought there were already too many exams for children, and she also thought if youre going to do well, youll do well wherever you go. Unfortunatly this isnt always the case, and i DREAD the thought of my son havign a similar experience of a comprehensive school as I did. If I could afford to send him to a good private school then I wouldnt hesitate, although if the local state school had a good reputation then i maybe wouldnt.
    My personal politics go out of the window a bit when Im worried about my own childs education.
    thats what my parents told me...its not fair for you to go and you're bright so you'll still do well
    i think i might have done well in my gcses and i've worked bloody hard for them - but i feel i could have done better
    and it wouldn't surprise me with kids getting more help than allowed on cw in private schools because they're so desperate to keep their reputation up
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In my flat at uni, there are 8 of us. I'm the only one who hasn't had any form of private schooling, but we've all ended up at the same place. What does that say?

    I don't think the secondary school I went to was too bad, but like Moonarcanum said I was always waiting ages for everyone else to catch up. It was the same at my A level college. I think uni is the first thing to challenge me academically!

    However, at school I don't remember having any careers advice or push to go to university. From my year (about 200 people) I've found 2 people who have gone to university.

    My dad is extremely anti private school, probably more to do with the fact that he teaches in my local primary school and will never be able to afford to send anyone to one, but even he says that if he'd known more about the schools available in the area he would have pushed for me to get a scholarship to Northampton Girl's School.

    I'm quite happy about the way I've been 'schooled' though, I'd have felt so guilty about my parents spending money on me that way.

    Like briggi said, the bigger problem in choosing schools is the unfair catchment area and admission policies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Yes it is unfair. All schools tbh should be state run...

    Why should education be the monopoly of the State? It sounds extreme but I'd make every secondary school private, allow the state to fix fees within a certain framework, there to be some broad consistency overseen by the state on admissions procedures and then give every parent a voucher for the average cost of a secondary school education.
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    there have been large amounts of cheating with hte private schooling system and they often often get more "help" that is allowed on their coursework... meaning of course, better grades.

    That's a different issue really. It's hardly unique to private schools. I attended a state school and I seem to remember GCSE IT coursework being a copy and paste job but changing a few details from coursework from the previous year...And I doubt our school was unique, cheating on coursework is pretty widespread.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its not cheating to get extra help.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It sounds extreme

    yer not wrong there, and you have the gall to call me extremist? :eek:

    Take a look in the mirror sometime
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    yer not wrong there, and you have the gall to call me extremist? :eek:

    Well it's only extreme in that it's reform that many governments would not have the bottle to implement. Funny how you don't actually critique the policy though isn't it?

    I guess such a scheme vastly increasing opportunities for a wide section of society and giving more people a chance to do better for themselves through getting a good education would upset a Socialist. Anyone would assume Socialism is dependent upon inequalities to the extent that it seeks to exasperate and maintain them.

    In itself there is nothing extreme about people educating themselves independently of the state. In higher education it seems to work pretty well, as people at Harvard, Yale and Stanford would I am sure confirm.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Why should education be the monopoly of the State? It sounds extreme but I'd make every secondary school private, allow the state to fix fees within a certain framework, there to be some broad consistency overseen by the state on admissions procedures and then give every parent a voucher for the average cost of a secondary school education.

    Eductation is a right and should be allowed free of charge, regardless of race, background, or infact, anything at all, and everyone should have the same education, as this is only fair. The only way to fix this is to have it provided by the state. Private enterprise will always discriminate, and is run for profit. Such a service as Education should not be a profit enterprise. Same with Public Transport, The Police, The Fire Service, or Health imho.
    That's a different issue really. It's hardly unique to private schools. I attended a state school and I seem to remember GCSE IT coursework being a copy and paste job but changing a few details from coursework from the previous year...And I doubt our school was unique, cheating on coursework is pretty widespread.

    Our teachers went nuts in GNVQ if we copied and pasted... she were a right bitch. Happened mind you, but between students. All cheating should result in Teachers being fired... but in Privte Schools it has become rather an accepted standard (in SOME of them... but more than Public.) - there have been reports I've heard of students been given outlines of exactally what to do. It's all because... they can pay for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I go to private school not because "mummy and daddy" can afford it, actually we'e scraping the barrel for money

    The barrel can't have been too empty to start with if you can afford the full fees of private schooling.
    I go to private school because my local secondary schools are quite frankly shit

    All of them?

    And why do you think that might be?

    It wouldn't be because the private schools- with their tax breaks and charitable status and land bank- are able to buy all the best teachers and buy all the best pupils would it?

    Perish the thought!

    Privatised education- like the privatisation of every other priority service- simply would not work. Instead of narrowing the gap between the poor and the rich, the gap would widen- fees would increase, and because of a voucher system, there wouldn't even be the pathetic number of bursaries we have now. Disillusioned's plan is a glorified version of the Conservatives' Assisted Places scheme, and will fail for exactly the same reasons.

    Selective schooling- either by talent or by money or by both- has no place in a democratic society. Streaming inside comprehensive schooling is the best way to educate children, as they can learn at their own pace and don't end up getting stuck in a sink school.

    I can safely say that I would have suffered badly in a grammar school system, as I developed quite late academically, and I would not have had the opportunities to get the A'Levels and the degree I got had I been stuck in a second-tier school.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    All cheating should result in Teachers being fired... but in Privte Schools it has become rather an accepted standard (in SOME of them... but more than Public.) - there have been reports I've heard of students been given outlines of exactally what to do. It's all because... they can pay for it.

    Well I heard that this happens in state schools, the standard being- don't bother teaching or learning much over the year, as long as there are bums in seats, then 'coach' everyone's coursework for exams...All because... As long as the results fall within hte norms, there's no corrolation between results and pay.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The notion of whether a Private and Public schooling system is unfair arises from the assumption that all state schools are equal, and would provide the same level of education.

    This is clearly not the case school qualities differ for many different reasons, in the case of state schools they differ largely because of their catchment area. The government attempts to provide a free resource to all, but the market finds a way to price it - schooling is actually economically speaking a complement to houseing. Research has shown that a 10% increase in results is associated with a 6.9% increase in house prices.

    The quality of schools differs for many reasons, the resources dedicated to it are clearly important, but increasing funding pre se doesn't necessarily help. Schools differ for many reasons, better performing schools are often observed in areas which are richer which typically can provide a better home environment for education - better study areas and typically more educated parents.

    Another major reason is the peer input. This is observed all over the education system the more able other students are, the better the results generally. Private/Public schools screen by ability to increase this - this is not unfair, but actually a reasonable outcome.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Mich wrote:
    Research has shown that a 10% increase in results is associated with a 6.9% increase in house prices.

    Yes, I often feel that if my house cost my parents more so they were indebted more, I'd have gotten an A in all my subjects. Shame my parents didn't take out a bigger mortgage, they sacrificed my acheivement.
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