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But you seem to think you're actually a better person because you haven't joined the army, and you're not, and that is fact. You've completly ignored the circumstances surrounding 90% of squaddies reasons for joining up. You're more than happy to sit in your ivory tower and say "you joined, you clearly love guns and shooting people and treading on puppies".
Of course If im anti-military, then im going to think im better for not being one of them - state the obvious. I think im better for not being part of an organisation I dislike! It doesnt mean I hate them all and wish them dead or anything cos i dont (charitable eh?)
I dislike the organisation, and most things it stands for, and I dislike the mentality that goes with it.
I hate the army as a whole rather than individual people, and Ill tell you what - ill compromise, because i know the army does surreptitious recruiting campaigns in a lot of poor areas where they have little/no job prospects, making it sound like fun fun fun, and entice people with their free degrees etc, so people can pretty much sign their life away (ok, not their whole life) without really thinking of the consequences.
The whole thing makes me feel quite cross
This thread was never about where they're deployed, or how the MOD go about things, but about the real live people who are recruited, people like me, like my mates on my course, like the kids who go to cadets for something to do and stay on because the liked how they had friends, and a future for a change.
Principles are an expensive luxury sometimes, most people can't really afford to pass up a chance like the ones offered by the british armed forces just because they'll have to shoot at someone who will kill them if they don't.
If you disagree with the points I make, then debate those please, and avoid telling me that I should be ashamed of my views.
Ive had my opinions changed in debates before, but never by those sort of tactics.
I don't care if you change your view of the army. But for the last time, this isn't about the MoD or about where they're deployed, this is about ordinary men and women, that you pretend you're better than.
I dont think im better than you either, especially since you didnt actually join the army.
Im probably not making myself properly clear.
If someone does bad things, or thinks in a way that I really dislike, or is part of an organisation i really disagree with, then yes. i feel that I am a better person.
It doesnt mean I think they deserve to die, or that I even wish them harm, and in actual fact, i wish almost everyone well in their lives, junkies, murderers, rapists, soldiers policemen, terrorists etc. I know theyve ALL got their reasons for the life they lead. Nothing happens in a void.
For the purposes of debate i say what I think. I have reasons for thinking the way I do, and you have reasons for thinking the way you do. You may think im arrogant, I struggle to see why you dont all agree with me tbh. It seems completely logical to me.
Im not hurting anyone - I strive for peace. I thought most people did, but obviously they dont.
That seems really contradictory to me. Nothing happens in a void, yet you're a better person because you didn't have to take what was given?
I remind you and everyone else here, we all have the same impulses, and we all think things we'd rather not admit, and you SCC I bet if you were pushed hard enough would have a glorious image in your mind of a gun in your hand and my head exploding in a red mist... not that you'd admit it, but for a moment you'd enjoy it, because we're all the same.
are you well?
Not that we'd all act on them, just that we all have our moments.
It's been pointed out to you how sanctimonious your contribution to this thread has been. If you want to debate the rights and wrongs of armed forces feel free to do so, and we might even share the same view - I for one am anti-war and always have been. We owe a great debt to those who lost their lives defending our liberties through the two world wars, and twice it was declared: never again. I live to that ideal.
However, if you will blast into a thread by taking the piss out of ordinary servicemen and women who happen to be serving in the Army in Iraq then expect to be pulled up for it. It's not big and it's not clever. And to assert that you are "better" than somebody else who differs from you in their viewpoint is arrogance in the extreme, and how you can expect to be respected when that is your level is beyond me.
And to katralla, apologies, my posts are directed at anyone taking cheap shots at other human beings who are risking their lives for yours.
If you think the soldiers in Iraq are in any way risking their lives for mine (or yours), you need your head examined.
Fascinating. I'm not classist, whatever class someone who joins the armed forces is they have my respect and support.
As it happens, I agree with this. Human's are capable of horrible shitty things. However its usually when placed in extreme positions, under emotional stress - we can revert back to very childlike black & white, self-centred and destructive behaviour. However, people who sell themselves to the government to do politicians bidding/killing when they have other options in life - well people like that I have little empathy for.
What's being "classist" got to do with anything?
I'm just saying that I (unlike yourself it would seem) support and respect everybody who joins the armed forces; whether they're working class, middle class or upper class.
What you really mean is that you don't give a shit that some people's life choices are severly limited by economic and social circumstances, which might lead them to making choices that people in better situations might not make.
P.S.
If you think that recognising this fact is "classist", then you're even nuttier than I thought.
...except of course the army do the government's bidding.