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Vegetarians (and no fish killers)

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh yes I've been to the debate part of the forum! It gave me a giggle too.

    Just because I'm the most argumentative person in the world and I'll do what I can until I get the last say. It just appears that there's a lot of most argumentative people in the world! Heh =)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote:
    at the end of the day
    kill it
    prepare it
    and cook it
    yourself...
    otherwise you're just a hypocrite. ~ why pay a middle man to do it for you

    That's what it all comes down to for me; I couldn't and wouldn't do it, so I don't.

    Other people can do what they like, I'm happy with my own diet choices so what others choose to eat isn't really of any consequence to me.

    I do hate seeing meat wasted, though, once upon a time it was a relative treat to have a tasty roast dinner or similar and the rest of the animal would be utilised if possible. Its carcass used to make broth etc etc. I firmly believe that if you're going to eat an animal you should eat everything that is edible (and won't come straight back up ;) ). I hate seeing smartprice chicken fillets and wondering what (if anything) happened to the rest of that chicken... :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    I firmly believe that if you're going to eat an animal you should eat everything that is edible
    which most british people are guilty of not doing. infact a lot of meat eaters would be repulsed if brains were served up on their plate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    most farming in this countr7y is humane.
    most farmers want tip top healthy animals ...or they get a bad reputation in the community and a lousy price for their work.
    most beef is grass reared as is ALL lamb.
    like i said before the easiest to abuse is poultry and pigs.

    who said your a hypocrite if you don't kill it yourself?
    silly argument.
    you don't refine your own petrol do you?
    i want to see out my windows but i can't be arsed doing it myself so pay joe.

    those of you who think we have evolved so ethicaly and moraly are dreaming!
    you can make such statements cos your very comfortable ...very very comfortable.
    there are many examples in the modern world where we soon revert to killing and slaughtering each other when times get bad enough.
    i can assure you ...people treat people ...far more cruely than any chicken ever had it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with you Briggi :yes:

    IMHO I have absolutley nooo problem with other people eating meat if there is a need, for example starvation or anaemia. But in this country, there are so many other things that we can eat, we are just wasting life for nothing. I also do not mind animals die for us to eat them - we are in the food chain, so be it. What I have an immense problem with is the way that animals are treated in their lifetimes - as if they are worthless, and to me, every life is precious.

    If I did have to go back to eating meat for health reasons, I would only ever eat Halaal or Kosher, as animals are killed in the most humane way, (as it says in the Qu'ran) and suffer no pain, and as it is a personal method, done by someone who has looked after the animal their whole life, the cow or chicken probably wouldnt even feel fear.

    But yes I agree, we have evolved away from eating meat, it takes the body something like 3 days to digest a burger, and 3 hours to digest fruit (estimate, but something like that) And if all the cereal used to feed the animals who are going to be killed was given to humans instead, you could feed more humans on the crops given to the animals, than eating the animals themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    That's what it all comes down to for me; I couldn't and wouldn't do it, so I don't.

    Other people can do what they like, I'm happy with my own diet choices so what others choose to eat isn't really of any consequence to me.

    I do hate seeing meat wasted, though, once upon a time it was a relative treat to have a tasty roast dinner or similar and the rest of the animal would be utilised if possible. Its carcass used to make broth etc etc. I firmly believe that if you're going to eat an animal you should eat everything that is edible (and won't come straight back up ;) ). I hate seeing smartprice chicken fillets and wondering what (if anything) happened to the rest of that chicken... :chin:
    i can assure you ...every bit of every animal is used for something.
    of course we are only going to eat the tastiest bits ...your cats and dogs get the rest in a can.
    animal carcasses are used in cosmetics medicines chemical processes ...there is no waste.
    next time you buy cheap student food ...read thew label.
    beef something or other ...and other meats.
    what are other meats?
    why don't they want to tell you what the other meats are?
    what is protien in these cheap shite products.
    what happens to frogs after their legs have been eaten?
    it's in your pot noodle or whatever as protien ...other meats include ...horse rabbit and kangaroo.
    all legal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    talia wrote:
    If I did have to go back to eating meat for health reasons, I would only ever eat Halaal or Kosher, as animals are killed in the most humane way, (as it says in the Qu'ran) and suffer no pain
    i'm confuse as to why you would have to eat meat for health reasons?
    kosher animals are drained of blood, starting with having their throats slit. there is no moral ground at all for killing animals for food in the modern society we live in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote:
    i'm confuse as to why you would have to eat meat for health reasons?

    Anemia
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I bow to you rolly. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't dispute that humans treat other humans very inhumanely; it doesn't mean that those of us who aspire to treat humans and animals humanely (and not eat them at all) are "silly".

    I would most definitely (and do) dispute that "most" farming in this country is humane, though I suppose that depends completely on how you personally would define humane.

    I don't think refining your own petrol and washing your own windows is comparable, to be honest. At least in my point of view, where the reason I don't kill animals is not that I don't have the capability (as in the example of refining petrol) or the inclination (as in the example of washing windows).

    I'm always bemused by the attitude of people who seem to want to convince non-meat eaters that their way is the right way because it's pointless to rail against a society which is so entrenched in a meat-centred diet. Or because it tastes so damn yummy. I have no issue with people who take either of those opinions, but a lot of them have a huge problem with my choices for some reason [I mentioned this in my first post, incidentally]... and go well out of their way to justify eating meat to me when I don't really care what the hell they eat.

    My attitude is live and let live, with regard to other humans and their lifestyle choices... and with regard to animals. Fuck anyone who has a problem with that, I don't have to answer to them and they don't have to answer to me. I'm on the side of the animals, someone has to be ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    talia wrote:
    I agree with you Briggi :yes:

    IMHO I have absolutley nooo problem with other people eating meat if there is a need, for example starvation or anaemia. But in this country, there are so many other things that we can eat, we are just wasting life for nothing. I also do not mind animals die for us to eat them - we are in the food chain, so be it. What I have an immense problem with is the way that animals are treated in their lifetimes - as if they are worthless, and to me, every life is precious.

    If I did have to go back to eating meat for health reasons, I would only ever eat Halaal or Kosher, as animals are killed in the most humane way, (as it says in the Qu'ran) and suffer no pain, and as it is a personal method, done by someone who has looked after the animal their whole life, the cow or chicken probably wouldnt even feel fear.

    But yes I agree, we have evolved away from eating meat, it takes the body something like 3 days to digest a burger, and 3 hours to digest fruit (estimate, but something like that) And if all the cereal used to feed the animals who are going to be killed was given to humans instead, you could feed more humans on the crops given to the animals, than eating the animals themselves.
    i'm sorry but your in some kind of dream world!
    halal ...they have huge factories producing halal!
    some kind individual doesn't stroke them and reassure them ...they stick a knife in them!
    and i can't repeat often enough ...most farm animals in the uk have a very healthy life.
    and if you turn all the grazing land over for veg growing ...you are advocating the mass extinction of millions of animals in your misguided kindness.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    Anemia
    lol
    you can get iron into your diet without eating meat
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm sorry but your in some kind of dream world!
    halal ...they have huge factories producing halal!
    some kind individual doesn't stroke them and reassure them ...they stick a knife in them!
    and i can't repeat often enough ...most farm animals in the uk have a very healthy life.
    and if you turn all the grazing land over for veg growing ...you are advocating the mass extinction of millions of animals in your misguided kindness.

    Haha, but these millions of animals wouldn't exist if there wasn't such high demand for meat at every meal, every day in every conceivable different dish/sauce/cut. I thought you'd be against that kind of decadence, actually. I'm not against people eating what they need, using up surpluses and all that. I find the way people can click their fingers and have any kind of meat in any dish on their plate in five minutes flat to be pretty weird and unnecessary.

    Just because someone doesn't eat meat and wants to behave as kindly toward animals as they're able doesn't mean they live in a dream world. Low blows in crazed attempts to justify something... to someone....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    Just because someone doesn't eat meat and wants to behave as kindly toward animals as they're able doesn't mean they live in a dream world. Low blows in crazed attempts to justify something... to someone....
    i haven't thrown any low bl9ws!
    you stated that ...halal is ok cos the animal probably won't even feel any pain!
    thats why i said your living in a dream world.
    you obviously don't actualy know anything about halal factories or british farming.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rolly has touched on a point.

    Cows have a very good life, there's some quite close to me. Now if cows did something constructive like create art, write literature and build houses then maybe I would think otherwise. But they don't, they just eat grass, shit,shag and sleep. Pretty good life IMO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i haven't thrown any low bl9ws!
    you stated that ...halal is ok cos the animal probably won't even feel any pain!
    thats why i said your living in a dream world.
    you obviously don't actualy know anything about halal factories or british farming.

    :confused:

    No, I didn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Rolly has touched on a point.

    Cows have a very good life, there's some quite close to me. Now if cows did something constructive like create art, write literature and build houses then maybe I would think otherwise. But they don't, they just eat grass, shit,shag and sleep. Pretty good life IMO.
    you cannot sell half starved bruised cut sad looking animals at market.
    and one of the problems with this very comfortable world is ...people now attatch human qualities or values to animals.
    they are our food ...a;ways have neen and always will be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    :confused:

    No, I didn't.
    sorry it was talia ...who said the folling ...

    If I did have to go back to eating meat for health reasons, I would only ever eat Halaal or Kosher, as animals are killed in the most humane way, (as it says in the Qu'ran) and suffer no pain, and as it is a personal method, done by someone who has looked after the animal their whole life, the cow or chicken probably wouldnt even feel fear.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    people now attatch human qualities or values to animals.
    yeah. some people probably do.
    but nobody can deny that animals do feel pain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    you cannot sell half starved bruised cut sad looking animals at market.
    and one of the problems with this very comfortable world is ...people now attatch human qualities or values to animals.
    they are our food ...a;ways have neen and always will be.

    True enough...when I was younger and travelled over the fields I would sometimes see a farmer coming up to fill the troughs with food and water, where would these cows get that otherwise? And it's hardly as though cows really have a concept of life and death...lazy sods just sit there doing sweet FA.

    Also, humans are natural omnivores. We can get it from vegtables, doesn't mean we should.

    Oh and I respect people who are vegetarians and don't care, it's their choice. I just like debating about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i keep seeing how there is a huge ammount of cruelty in the dairy industry ...what is this cruelty have you ever been on a dairy farm?

    the cows actualy gather at the right time by the gate ...waiting for the farmer to let them indoors to be milked whilst stuffing themselves on turnips!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I may not know the intricate workings of farms that sell to mass markets and factories (though I probably know more than you're giving me credit for), but I do know my own mind. With that I know doubtlessly that I would never harm any animal under any circumstance my wildest imagination can conjure up. Anyway, enough on that. :p

    I can't quite believe that animal carcasses are used up in different industry thus leaving no waste, but even if they were I was just touching on the idea of going back to the days when meat was bought as-killed from a butcher's shop and using it all to create several meals for a family rather than buying fillets of one cow and a T-bone steak from another and a bag of pre-cooked chicken drumsticks. It just doesn't make sense, and I think it's a real symptom of the way our culinary culture is heading. It doesn't sit well with me, at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i keep seeing how there is a huge ammount of cruelty in the dairy industry ...what is this cruelty have you ever been on a dairy farm?

    It was dairy farming in the US that I was referring to. (I hope this link works)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    I was just touching on the idea of going back to the days when meat was bought as-killed from a butcher's shop and using it all to create several meals for a family.

    My granny told me once that they used to have cabbage and pigs trotters dinner and that they were grateful for it! :eek:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I apologise M Roll, my mistake. But yes dairy farming is cruel. The only reason the cows want to be milked is because if they dont, then they suffer. Their calfs are taken away at birth, and dont say they dont care, because it is in every mothers nature to care, whether human or cow. And because dairy cows have been bred to produce so much milk, it is very painful for them now, not to be milked, so they have no choice. I would say that is cruel. Also the fact that most dairy cows suffer painful arthiritis and knee problems. That is humanities doing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    My granny told me once that they used to have cabbage and pigs trotters dinner and that they were grateful for it! :eek:

    Aye, that was probably considered a huge treat... :p

    I saw pig snouts in the pet shop the other day, being sold as treats for dogs. They seemed to have turned yellow as they dried out, not nice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would that not be because there is no blood to keep them a pinky colour?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote:
    I may not know the intricate workings of farms that sell to mass markets and factories (though I probably know more than you're giving me credit for), but I do know my own mind. With that I know doubtlessly that I would never harm any animal under any circumstance my wildest imagination can conjure up. Anyway, enough on that. :p

    I can't quite believe that animal carcasses are used up in different industry thus leaving no waste, but even if they were I was just touching on the idea of going back to the days when meat was bought as-killed from a butcher's shop and using it all to create several meals for a family rather than buying fillets of one cow and a T-bone steak from another and a bag of pre-cooked chicken drumsticks. It just doesn't make sense, and I think it's a real symptom of the way our culinary culture is heading. It doesn't sit well with me, at all.
    i don't think at any point in history ...a family would have bought an entire cow!
    out here in the country we do buy a chicken and use more or less everything.
    i can assure you the farm and food industry use every single part of an animal ...always have ...hooves and bones and horns for glue and such like but it has moved on miles from those days.
    we now have hightech emulsifying techniques. you buy cheap industrial chicken spread ...you get the beak the feet the lot.
    if the odd feather goes into the machinery you get that as well.
    inards eyeballs etc.
    suasages are mostly lips and bumbs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    pigs trotters are back on the supermarket shelves ...at least in morrisons.
    if you were to look in my freezer ...you'd find kidneys and hearts.
    i mince them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    See if it was if it was between me and a chicken living, i would choose me, but just because im selfish :p What would you do Briggi?
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