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The Klintock thread

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Simple answer. Seems obvious to me."States" ARE a mental construct.I have no first hand evidence to the contrary nor has any ever been presented to me.
    Is that it? That's your argument?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I get the impression that seeker thinks he comes across as this amazingly wise and enigmatic being who talks in riddles that baffle us all with their insights and intelligence.

    Given all the hostility directed at me,I`d have to be very delusional to think that I come across as amazingly wise and enigmatic.

    To which riddles is it that you refer ? I thought I was straight talking.
    Sadly, most of us here are far too intelligent ourselves to fall for it, so it's obvious that he talks nonsense to detract from the fact that he doesn't really know what he thinks, and isn't able to refute any argument put to him.

    Talking nonsense ? Again, in earlier posts I boldly highlighted gibberish posted by others and asked them,if they could,to explain what the hell they meant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i too speak from experience.
    back in the early seventies i had a shop.
    i got thrown in jail for something and lost my shop.
    not long after my release i was contacted by the tax man about the shop.
    i didn't pay a penny on two years business.
    he didn't threaten to kill me or even kidnap me.
    over a few months of meetings and paperwork they accepted my story ...that i couldn't remember anything.
    all i could remember was funding a huge drugs habit ...i could prove i was a drug addict and it was impossible for them to get me to remember anything.
    it was decided that seeing as i would stick to the story of being in such a drug fueled haze even in court ...to drop it.
    i was exc8used ...didn't pay a penny. :D
    for some strange reason i even got a tax rebate a few months later!
    took the money and ran.

    Congratulations.Your story has a happy ending and I am genuinely glad for you.

    Note though that there were months of meetings and paperwork.

    You had to prove that you were "innocent".Assumed guilty :eek2:

    My guess is that they thought there were easier fish to fry.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I get the feeling that you are not going to get an answer. It looks like someone is out for the "glory" of being banned, I guess some people feel the need to appear rebellious when actually they just conform...

    Why is it that I have the image of someone who hasn't had to make their own way through life...?

    And I get the feeling that I`m the subject of your attempt at psychoanalysis.Tell me more.You have got me fascinated.No clues mind you,you are going to have to make your own way through this ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Is that it? That's your argument?

    Argument for WHAT ? I answered, in plain talk, a question that I have been accused of not answering
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm astonished that you don't seem to realise that you are on a debating board and that despite fairly prolific posting in this thread you haven't actually contributed anything to the subject at hand.

    To say "Simple answer. Seems obvious to me."States" ARE a mental construct.I have no first hand evidence to the contrary nor has any ever been presented to me" is not an argument. It's meaningless.

    Do you have a point of view on this or not?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Simple answer. Seems obvious to me."States" ARE a mental construct.I have no first hand evidence to the contrary nor has any ever been presented to me.


    There's nothing revolutionary about that statement. In fact, I’d even go as far as to put it in the category of "The Bleedin' Obvious".

    What exactly is it you are arguing for or against?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Simple answer. Seems obvious to me."States" ARE a mental construct.I have no first hand evidence to the contrary nor has any ever been presented to me.

    States can be a mental construct and still in reality exist. Enough people believe the mental construct, have created institutions based in and around the construct and assign some value to it. You may not be able to touch the UK, but you can touch institutions which have been built around it and see and touch the results of those institutions.

    At the end of the day a £5 note is simply a piece of paper with some ink and a watermark. It only has value because enough people think it has value. If you went into a shop and tried to buy a loaf of bread with it, but all the shopkeepers refused because they saw it as just piece of printed paper, you're fiver would soon become valueless. This won't happen because virtually everyone else sees the fiver as a useful medium of exchange and accpet (more or less) the same value on it.

    What you and Klintock never seem to be able to grasp is the ability of abstract things to also be real to people. This isn't some great discovery you've made, but the inability to think above the level of a toddler.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fuckinell, is seeker still bleating on? Of course they're a "mental construct", but that's what humans do. Everything's a bleedin' mental construct at the end of the day. So what? Fucking 6th formers. :rolleyes:
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Blagsta wrote:
    fuckinell, is seeker still bleating on? Of course they're a "mental construct", but that's what humans do. Everything's a bleedin' mental construct at the end of the day. So what? Fucking 6th formers. :rolleyes:

    Oi, I'm at college.

    Fuck knows what he's on about, he's actually worse than Klintock. He keeps contradicting himself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Everything's a bleedin' mental construct at the end of the day.
    Exactly. And that's our reality. This is the point that Klintock failed to grasp.

    If anyone is intrested in constructivism they should read Maturana. He's pretty radical, but he's one of the geniouses of our time, he has contributed greatly to contemporary thinking.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Oi, I'm at college.

    Sorry. Its just shorthand for "someone who's just discovered the blindingly obvious and thinks its really deep".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Love a bit of constructivism, me

    ElLissitzky.jpg

    rodchenko_oval.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Sorry. Its just shorthand for "someone who's just discovered the blindingly obvious and thinks its really deep".

    :thumb:

    Though tell ya what blaggy, you let on you know more than ya really do!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Haha, yeah I do reckon it's right. Not necesseraly beneficial on such a large scale though.
    Territories being recognised by animals? It's useful to know that our sense of community and antipathy to strangers probably runs deeper than what we were inculcated with as we grew up. It may be that we can never eradicate racism for this reason. But we can overcome it, as soon as we realise that disliking someone because of the colour of their skin makes as much sense as flinching in fear from a candle. Evolutionary psychologists learn a lot from animal behaviour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    States can be a mental construct and still in reality exist. Enough people believe the mental construct, have created institutions based in and around the construct and assign some value to it. You may not be able to touch the UK, but you can touch institutions which have been built around it and see and touch the results of those institutions.

    Enough people ? Do you mean enough to form a violent gang ?
    NQA wrote:
    At the end of the day a £5 note is simply a piece of paper with some ink and a watermark.

    :thumb: I think we are in total agreement
    NQA wrote:
    It only has value because enough people think it has value. If you went into a shop and tried to buy a loaf of bread with it, but all the shopkeepers refused because they saw it as just piece of printed paper, you're fiver would soon become valueless. This won't happen because virtually everyone else sees the fiver as a useful medium of exchange and accpet (more or less) the same value on it.

    That piece of paper`s "value" gets closer to zero every day.
    NQA wrote:
    What you and Klintock never seem to be able to grasp is the ability of abstract things to also be real to people. This isn't some great discovery you've made, but the inability to think above the level of a toddler.

    Sometimes the thinking of the little toddler is the truth

    I have no problem with people and their beliefs. You have said yourself that in the past you were a hired killer but your belief system airbrushed the description to "peace keeper". That airbrushing occurs all the time.

    Even when there is no airbrushing, I don`t have a problem.

    The problem arises for me when those believers in abstractions aren`t content to mind their own business and want to impose that belief system on me. By any means available, including violence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    fuckinell, is seeker still bleating on? Of course they're a "mental construct", but that's what humans do. Everything's a bleedin' mental construct at the end of the day. So what? Fucking 6th formers. :rolleyes:

    Morning Blagsta :wave:

    I see some of your books have pictures.

    Do you get them on expenses, or pay direct out of your blood money ?

    Shameless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I'm astonished that you don't seem to realise that you are on a debating board and that despite fairly prolific posting in this thread you haven't actually contributed anything to the subject at hand.

    To say "Simple answer. Seems obvious to me."States" ARE a mental construct.I have no first hand evidence to the contrary nor has any ever been presented to me" is not an argument. It's meaningless.

    Do you have a point of view on this or not?

    The thread is called "The Klintock thread", isn`t it ?

    Klintock has been banned for bringing up the truth in many debates, and it seems that there are many who see this has "spoiling the fun" and "an irrelevancy".

    E.g. A debate starts about whether the "easter bunny" is a chinchilla or a palimino. After much "debate" Klintock chimes in and says "I think I should point out that the "easter bunny" doesn`t exist".

    Cue: rocks and stones get hurled at Klintock. Warnings are issued and he gets banned.

    My "argument" in another thread was a suggestion to the moderators that a new rule should be added that points out to people that daring to "spoil the fun" by stating the truth ("an irrelevancy" to many :shocking: ) will result ultimately in a ban.

    Do you follow ? Or is it still all "meaningless" ? :chin: :chin:
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    seeker wrote:
    Morning Blagsta :wave:

    I see some of your books have pictures.

    Do you get them on expenses, or pay direct out of your blood money ?

    Shameless.

    One again, an example of your debating skills. Mocking a regular who knows what he is on about.

    Just wondering... did I ask you this before or Klintock? Oh well... do you ACTUALLY have a point? If so, feel free to make it. Preferably before christmas.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    One again, an example of your debating skills. Mocking a regular who knows what he is on about.

    Just wondering... did I ask you this before or Klintock? Oh well... do you ACTUALLY have a point? If so, feel free to make it. Preferably before christmas.

    I was just joining in with Blagsta`s mocking debate.

    He started the fun and you joined in.

    Is it OK to throw the custard pies but not so much fun when one lands in your face ?
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    seeker wrote:
    I was just joining in with Blagsta`s mocking debate.

    He started the fun and you joined in.

    Is it OK to throw the custard pies but not so much fun when one lands in your face ?

    I think he is getting the the point that you are failing to particularly explain a point you keep maknig over and over. Again and again.

    In the thread where we are trying to remember Klintock, of all things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    The thread is called "The Klintock thread", isn`t it ?

    Klintock has been banned for bringing up the truth in many debates, and it seems that there are many who see this has "spoiling the fun" and "an irrelevancy".

    E.g. A debate starts about whether the "easter bunny" is a chinchilla or a palimino. After much "debate" Klintock chimes in and says "I think I should point out that the "easter bunny" doesn`t exist".

    Cue: rocks and stones get hurled at Klintock. Warnings are issued and he gets banned.
    Hardly comparable. The Easter Bunny, whilst being real to children under the age of four, is not part of our lives. Her Majesty's United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is.

    Your point presumably is that klintock was banned for pointing out things that, whilst true, were not acceptable to us because we've been conned into believing things that don't really exist. We've been through that too many times with klintock and he couldn't grasp the fact that - mental construct or not - we didn't give a shit.
    My "argument" in another thread was a suggestion to the moderators that a new rule should be added that points out to people that daring to "spoil the fun" by stating the truth ("an irrelevancy" to many :shocking: ) will result ultimately in a ban.

    Do you follow ? Or is it still all "meaningless" ? :chin: :chin:
    I think our versions of truth are different and that is why you are getting confused.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Plus Klintock baited the mods. Bad idea, they took the bait, and banned him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Klintock has been banned for bringing up the truth in many debates, :chin:
    you realy don't get it do you ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    >sigh<

    What's the big deal?

    Klintock has a view. Expresses it. Interests and annoys people with it at the same time. (as in, it's all very well and good having a theory but when the practical application of it are not elaborated in any practical way impossible and/or unsatisfactory, such theories are best left)

    When no-one wants to hear your view or "truth" (everyone has you on ignore etc) it's probably best to amend it or take it elsewhere so as to not waste time/energy.

    Klintock more or less asked to be banned. Mods obliged. Happy ending for all concerned...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    E.g. A debate starts about whether the "easter bunny" is a chinchilla or a palimino. After much "debate" Klintock chimes in and says "I think I should point out that the "easter bunny" doesn`t exist".
    If you think that's cool, I have a great story for you about angels and pinheads...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    do i need help ...
    i found myself googling klintock and going for i feel lucky?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A ten page thread and still growing. Amazing!!

    Klintock would be so proud!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I hope he can come back and celebrate for it.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Yeah... shame. He'll never be able to look at this thread in is honour and reply.
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