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"Business is business"

24

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But you are commiting the fallacy of reification.

    'Capitalism' is not a thing or a person it is simply a system to organise the economy.

    How can that have a bearing on individual morality. This man has behaved immorally, would you think that he would not have done so if we lived in a communist society, would that man be a different man?

    Capitalism hasn't made him do anything, he choose to do it and I think there is no reason to assume he would have made a different choice under a different system, as long as there was something to gain for him.

    We all live in a capitalist society, does that mean all of our behaviour reflects the 'principles of capitalism'?

    No it doesn't
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But capitalism advocates such behaviour by its very core beliefs.

    It's up to the individual to follow such criteria to the letter or draw the line at some point. Those who don't draw the line anywhere are behaving immoraly, and in this case the simply follow capitalist mantra to the end to justify their actions.

    So in my view yes, capitalism is as much to blame as the invidivual who behaves in such way, for advocating the very principle of making as much money as possible as the only objective worth considering.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What on earth does that mean?

    Without sounding like klintock, who is this person or thing 'capitalism' that tells us these things? You been having nightmares recently?

    The capitalist mantra? You talk is if people are educated or indoctrinated in these things, is there somewhere where they are?

    People will try to do the best for themselves and those close to them in any situation, that is survival. There are morals that inhibit that which are rather similar everywhere.......

    Again.

    Do you think this person would have behaved differently if he was living in North Korea for example?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That would depend on whether he had come to believe that any business is worth doing regardless whether it might be morally reprehensible.

    Of course, one does not need to be an enthusiast capitalist to behave in such manner. So indeed a man from communist North Korea could behave in such manner. But you keep igoning the fact that capitalism itself advocates such behaviour. So if people act with a conscience when they conduct business is certainly on spite of capitalist principles, not because of them.

    So capitalism is a rather ugly system that sometimes advocates rather wrong and unethical behaviour, yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    'Capitalism' does not advocate any behaviour at all.

    What do you mean?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Capitalism is all about making the biggest amount of money possible by way of trading/selling/conducting business isn't it? Ethics are certainly not a consideration.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Aladdin wrote:
    Capitalism is all about making the biggest amount of money possible by way of trading/selling/conducting business isn't it? Ethics are certainly not a consideration.
    Well summed up.

    Anyone who denies it is just a blatant liar. Capitalism is a system based on greed. End of.

    It is not about caring, or benefiting anyone other than yourself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Why does it have anything to with capitalism?

    If the gallows had been produced by a workers collective or by a state run enterprise and then sold or exchanged abroard what would be the difference?

    Just because someone exhibits dubious morals it isn't capitalisms fault.

    Or were you being ironic?

    workers collectives or state run enterprises can be capitalist y'know, mr "economics student"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    So Soviet businesses never did anything unethical?

    What you are saying is that this person would have a different set of morals if he lived in a different economic system.

    That to me is ridiculous........

    Soviet businesses were capitalist, mr "economics student"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Capitalism is all about making the biggest amount of money possible by way of trading/selling/conducting business isn't it? Ethics are certainly not a consideration.
    Absolute rubbish. A typical left-wing distortion of the truth. Yes Capitalism is about wealth creation but it is not sustainable over the long term without an ethical & social dimension that delivers benefits to society as a whole.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    But you are commiting the fallacy of reification.

    In what sense are you using the term "reification" there?
    Toadborg wrote:
    'Capitalism' is not a thing or a person it is simply a system to organise the economy.

    ...which is organised by people...
    Toadborg wrote:
    How can that have a bearing on individual morality. This man has behaved immorally, would you think that he would not have done so if we lived in a communist society, would that man be a different man?

    Yep. Unless you deny the influence of idealogy on social relations.
    Toadborg wrote:
    Capitalism hasn't made him do anything, he choose to do it and I think there is no reason to assume he would have made a different choice under a different system, as long as there was something to gain for him.

    Under communism, his needs would be catered for, he would have nothing to personally gain.
    Toadborg wrote:
    We all live in a capitalist society, does that mean all of our behaviour reflects the 'principles of capitalism'?

    No it doesn't

    Bollocks. Capitalism is a system of social relations, it permeates and affects all our lives. Boss, worker, manager, consumer, all the social roles we play are all affected by the system in which we organise resources.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tugger wrote:
    Absolute rubbish. A typical left-wing distortion of the truth. Yes Capitalism is about wealth creation but it is not sustainable over the long term without an ethical & social dimension that delivers benefits to society as a whole.

    Describe this ethical and social dimension then. Does it include using prostitutes for example?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    'Capitalism' does not advocate any behaviour at all.

    What do you mean?

    Errr...the system of social relations in which we organise resources (i.e. capitalism) is based on profit which is expropriated labour (exploitation)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Describe this ethical and social dimension then. Does it include using prostitutes for example?
    And why not? Its the oldest business there is. Are you objecting to a woman being a prostitute? Or a man for that matter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tugger wrote:
    And why not? Its the oldest business there is. Are you objecting to a woman being a prostitute? Or a man for that matter.

    sad cunt
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Capitalism is all about making the biggest amount of money possible by way of trading/selling/conducting business isn't it? Ethics are certainly not a consideration.

    :eek: :eek2: :eek: :eek2:

    Voluntary trade is considered UNethical

    But the relentless advocacy of threats and violence is somehow ethical

    Welcome to Bizarro World
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tugger wrote:
    Absolute rubbish. A typical left-wing distortion of the truth. Yes Capitalism is about wealth creation but it is not sustainable over the long term without an ethical & social dimension that delivers benefits to society as a whole.
    Yeah right.

    I wonder how many capitalists believe in in the existence of society, let alone giving much of shit about it.

    Socially concious capitalist is as likely a mix as oil & water.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair, classic Liberalism advocates "free" trade as a way of ensuring liberty and prosperity for all. Although of course history has proved it wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    . double post
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Aladdin wrote:
    Yeah right.

    I wonder how many capitalists believe in in the existence of society, let alone giving much of shit about it.

    Socially concious capitalist is as likely a mix as oil & water.

    Post of the week. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    To be fair, classic Liberalism advocates "free" trade as a way of ensuring liberty and prosperity for all. Although of course history has proved it wrong.
    I suppose you're referring to the 'trickle down effect', yeah.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I suppose you're referring to the 'trickle down effect', yeah.

    Liberalism

    in its historical context, it did provide more freedom - it basically overthrew the hangovers from Feudalism etc. However it established other forms of tyranny
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    To be fair, classic Liberalism advocates "free" trade as a way of ensuring liberty and prosperity for all. Although of course history has proved it wrong.

    Please Mr. History reader, can have some examples of FREE trade ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:

    Under communism, his needs would be catered for, he would have nothing to personally gain.

    I'm not going to reply to all those dimwitted one-liners, but this one made me laugh........ :lol:

    I worry that you actually believe this don't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Yeah right.

    I wonder how many capitalists believe in in the existence of society, let alone giving much of shit about it.

    Socially concious capitalist is as likely a mix as oil & water.

    You work for a small business right? So if you know your boss then he is capitalist, is he as evil as you claim all capitalists are?

    Do you know anyone who owns shares, are they evil as well?

    Is the bloke who runs the local corner shop evil?

    Is Bill Gates evil for donating billions of pound to AIDS charities?

    Please stop talking such simplistic nonsense, you're better than that.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:



    Under communism, his needs would be catered for, he would have nothing to personally gain.

    lol. How do you know what his needs are?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just because one lives in a capitalist world and has to take part in it does not mean one is a capitalist.

    It is possible to run a business without being a capitalist IMO. Capitalism is a philosophy as much as anything else: the philosophy that only money matters, only profit matters.

    Are you really trying to pass off capitalism now as a caring, socially conscious system?

    LOL!

    You know better than that as well- or at least I hope you do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    God this is a hard slog.

    If you run or invest in a private enterprise that operates to make profit then you are a capitalist surely? Sorry to break it to you.

    You would seem to be suggesting that anyone who is immoral is a capitalist, thus making the idea that capitalism is bad a rather ridiculous tautology.

    Do the people you work for try to make a profit for that business?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyone who sets themselves to making as much money as possible without any ethical and moral considerations is acting out of greed and is following the very core belief of capitalism to the letter.

    Capitalism is the only system that advocates such practices.



    Yes, you're quite right- this is hard slog.

    Hopefully the message will have driven home this time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again.

    'Capitalism advocates it'

    What on earth does that mean?

    Maybe your meaning of capitalism is different to mine. If you mean free market economics then 'it advocates' no such thing..........
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