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What David Blunkett said...

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
He said that ethnic minorities should make more of an effort to fit in in Britain, ie. by learning the language and integrating in society rather than having separate areas and schools. What do you think? I think it's natural for big cities to develop Jewish/Muslim/Sikh/etc areas but I do think people should learn English. Minority "community leaders" have said that what DB said is fuelling racists. I think DB is a good politician compared to most. He says he won't pander to the politically correct brigade anymore.

It said in a report into the race riots that one of the reasons they happened was because white people were annoyed at the amount of government money being put into "ethnic minority" areas and facilities.

Let me know what your opinions are. <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="confused.gif" border="0"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="confused.gif" border="0">

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oops I only just realised that Whowhere had posted on a similar topic. :-) Still, mine is a little different. I take an interest in this subject as my grandparents came to England in the second world war to escape the Nazis, they learnt English and got jobs and raised a family. But think about it, if there was a war in England and we all had to go to another country, wouldn't we want to keep a sense of our identity?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, nobody can argue with your own experiences, however it is also the reponsibility of the arriving group to make an effort into integrating into the local community. The current riots reflect that this isn't happening, that instead the ethnic minorities are choosing to shun the majority and live in their own small groups.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think its great that he has made these comments. Unfortunately I think it has more to do with him being up against a wall rather than him actually believing them. People are finally starting to realise that the governments handling of race issues in this country is a disgrace. The report on the race riots up north is out today and lays the blame squarely at the feet of the government and their handling of racial issues.

    You say its natural that people form jewish,muslim,sikh areas in cities. Unfortunately this is true and our govt encourages it....That kind of segregation does nothing but stoke racist attitudes. You cant have integration in everyday life if people are living apart and only get to see people of their own race/group.

    May I ask what group your parents were from KT? Jews, Poles?

    I think its essential that people keep hold of their identity when they come to this country. However, holding onto your identity and traditions is a whole lot different than setting up a mini version of your old country inside the UK. Teaching people to speak the language of their new country can provide nothing but good results. I wouldnt go to Pakistan and expect to get by just speaking English, they wouldnt put up with it..We on the other hand are perfectly happy writing our census forms in punjabi and hiring interpreters for everyone who cant be arsed to learn the language.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well for once I agree with what you are saying! They were Jewish. My nan said to me how kind people were to her and her sister when they came over here, but today people are not kind to those who have escaped from persucution. A lot of it is to do with the press, just reporting on scroungers and not showing both sides of the story.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think a lot of the trouble and racist feeling comes from people not being able to tell the difference between asylum seekers, people fleeing persecution and illegal immigrants who come here to make more money than they do at home. Normal immigrants arent really part of the problem and I certainly have no problem with people willing to take the time and effort to emmigrate here legally.

    Asylum seekers, we have a moral obligation to take them in and give them support in the form of food and shelter. These people should only have to learn English and about the UK culture if they are planning on staying indefinately.

    Illegal immigrations I really dont have much time for. They should be deported as soon as they are found. They arent fleeing persecution and are simply looking for a better life. Now thats not a bad thing in itself but when they sneak into the country illegally then thats when problems arise. You cant just have people running round the country without being known about. They can avoid paying taxes and it all just contributes to the black economy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But what if the only way a person can get here is illegally? I am not sticking up for illegal immigrants, in fact I think it's really suspicious how so many of them are young males, do they just leave all women, children and elderly back to face the terrible situation, or are they here to make a buck and send it back home?
    It's very sad to read about people who are so desperate to get here that they will risk death.

    Last year 2 African boys (don't know what country specifically, sorry) were found in the luggage part of a plane at a British airport, dead. They had a note with them saying they wanted to highlight the desperation of their people.

    Who can blame people for wanting to come here, to a free country with lots of jobs going?

    It just feels like many refugees can't win-if they are on benefits, they are "scrounging", but if they are working, they are "stealing our jobs".

    One thing that bugs me is that any European person coming to the UK can have free English lessons but any British person in another country has to pay to learn the native language. Fair? I think not.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well im no expert on immigration proceedures but why would it be hard to get here legally? Sure it might be a hassle to fill in all the paperwork and it may take a while but at least its legal. I cant see any reason why people cant get in legally if they put the effort in...Of course as i said, im no expert.
    It just feels like many refugees can't win-if they are on benefits, they are "scrounging", but if they are working, they are "stealing our jobs".

    We are a rich country. We can afford to support refugees for a while, until their claims are processed. Unfortunately our govt wont let them work at present, even when some of them are doctors and nurses. I can honestly say that I have never heard someone say 'they are stealing our jobs'..That seems like a stereotype from the 70s racist groups. Our govt should change its policies. They should keep the new refugees/asylum seekers in secure accomodation until their applications are processed. If they are genuine asylum seekers then they should be given housing and given the option to work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to agree with you about the secure accomodation-as long as the processes don't take too long and the conditions are humane. If people are genuine then they wouldn't complain. Too many people dissapear into the black market, and there are too many greedy people here in the UK willing to take advantage of people willing to work for little money.

    In Birmingham my home town, there are loads of refugees, especially young men from Kosovo and Albania. My friend's boyfriend is a refugee from Kosovo and he worked in a factory for a bit, the guy refused to pay the men that worked there so my friend went down there are threatened to report him if he didn't pay them.

    I don't come down on any side, but I get really annoyed when people talk about "dirty refugees" and slag them off. Each story is different and it's a disgusting form of racism that seems acceptable. I have had arguments with people at home over this. They just agree with whatever the papers shove down their throats, if they actually got to know a real refugee and saw that they are human they would not do that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Gov't data showed 80% of asylum seekers where bogus.

    It costs about £500 million a year, again Gov't data, to sort them out.

    While they are being sorted out they cost money and are a drain on the resources that are all ready failing.

    True asylums seekers welcome the bogus ones can piss off.

    peacechild
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    <STRONG>. If they are genuine asylum seekers then they should be given housing and given the option to work.</STRONG>

    I do agree with what you have said, however do you not feel it is these scenario's that are the source of some problems ? generally asylum seekers are housed in inner city council estates where unemployment is high, seeing them ushered in and getting jobs must provoke racial tension ? I do feel asylum seekers should be welcomed and helped, as we as a country are in a position to do so, but i also feel that neglecting our own needs into the bargain is a dangerous combination. I also have to hold my hands up and admit i have no solution <IMG alt="image" SRC="confused.gif" border="0"> to this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's Ok I'm not going to argue <IMG alt="image" SRC="smile.gif" border="0">
    I just wanted to say a little about assylum seekers.
    One problem with the placement of refugees is the way in which governments do it.
    I was brought up on a small farm in a remote part of Ireland. The town has a population of a couple of hundred, mostly farmers. A couple of years ago around 80 Refugees were housed in a holiday village (off season) in the area which more or less doubled the population. The refugees spoke little English and were given a limited amount of help to do so, the were not allowed to work.
    This ultimately led to great annoyance in the area because little was done to integrate this new community, both sides became suspicious and the atmosphere was one of dislike and distrust.
    It's the same kind of thing that happened in Scotland last year. Place a load of foreigners (cos that's what they are really) within a poor strugling community who already feel that they are forgotten by the government, and resentments arise.
    there must be a better way? Pewrhaps they could be placed in Kensington.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Regarding Blunkett's speech, I do agree that ethnic minrities seem to lock themselves away in ghettoes. I live in Toxteth and the only white people you see are little old ladies that have probably lived here all of their lives and students (I belong to the latter group). I don't know if they live in inner cities by choice or not, but at first glance, that would appear to be the case. My other home is in Scotland, and you hardly ever see Asians In my class at school we had one chinese girl, everyone else was white. You go to any inner city school and you will see almost every race under the sun.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you went to live in (for example) Swaziland, would you want to live in a remote village with tribes people or in a city with a mixture of people? Hmmm, I wonder! What happens is that ethnic minority people move into an area then many middle class white people leave the area and the prices fall, I am not being racist, this is just what happens. The area becomes "bad"-call me wrong if you want, but there's loads of areas in Birmingham like that. I'm not saying there are no "white" areas that are bad, but why are all the shootings and muggings in these areas?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I Agree a bit
    But I think that they should be spread out more evenly so both middle and 'lowe' class areas have to accept the responsibility.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    can people bare in mind the cost of relocating them into nice middle class suburbs or kensington, good in theory but not in practice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Inner city areas have always been total shitholes. Even back in the 1800s when there were very few non-whites. The majority of people move out of large cities as soon as they can afford to. Most people settle down outside of cities, they can afford to live somewhere nice when they settle down. Theres also a lot of black/asians who do the same. I dont think its much of a race thing but rather an economic thing. Theres a lot of ethnic minorities who live in the cities and are never likely to earn enough cash to get out of the cities.

    The whites moving out when blacks move in does also happen these days but not as often as a few years back..I believe its called 'white flight'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally, I do not know how asylum seekers can integrate into our society and find a proper job if they can't speak English. Unless they are escaping War Torn places or famine etc, they should pass a test in English. IF they fail and they have no real reason to be here, then they should go back. The only other way would be to teach them English when they come. I think if they are genuine, then this is what the gov't should do anyway. We are a society based on multi-cultural values, so we should do all we can do to help these people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just my opinion, I think ethnic minorities should make an effort to put themselves as part of the British culture. Isolating themselves would not help them at all, it would only make the situation even worse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by NiceK:
    <STRONG>Just my opinion, I think ethnic minorities should make an effort to put themselves as part of the British culture. Isolating themselves would not help them at all, it would only make the situation even worse.</STRONG>

    I agree, i'm not sure us doing everything for them solves anything in the long term. We can offer them asylum, a temporary base, education of the english language and culture and then let them go out into the country and get on with it ! perhaps designating them an area to avoid congregation. laying on the present welcoming party isn't working
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Call me stupid if you must, but I thought that the reason people flock to this country is the culture we have...

    So why don't they then integrate?

    I'm not sure that a pledge of alligence will help, but I do think that English lessons should be compulsory - if you don't attend then you should be deported...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I seem to recall that fluency in the official language is a requirement for citizenship in several European countries. Denmark is one, I think. Can anyone confirm that?
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