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Transexuals

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    And why should transexuals be given changes on the NHS? It's not as if it'll kill them if they don't have the sex change... :rolleyes:

    If transexuals should be given treatment on the NHS, should I, for example, be given laser treatment or something to remove the stubble on my upper lip?
    50% of transgender people attempt suicide (source unknown, it was quoted and referenced at NUS LGBT conference) - that makes gender dysphoria serious and life-threatening in my book.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    50% of transgender people attempt suicide (source unknown, it was quoted and referenced at NUS LGBT conference) - that makes gender dysphoria serious and life-threatening in my book.

    But why should the NHS pay for it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    But why should the NHS pay for it?
    Why should they pay to cure a serious and potentially life-threatening disease? I just think that if it's part of the treatment, laser hair removal should be allowed. If it causes someone to hate themselves and causes intense emotional distress, that's what the NHS is for.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    But an operation can never change your sex (gender, if you must). Operations will only ever be able to tinker with the outward appearance of your body and will actually do very little to address the real problem of being uncomfortable with one's identity, which is basically the problem here.


    exactamundo


    covered by a south park episode where kyles dad believed he was a dolphin :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    That's pretty distressing.

    That's mild. I have a tourettes type outbreak when I get onto thatsubject.
    Why shouldn't it?

    I'm not sure that we don't.
    What are the criteria for what is covered by the NHS anyway? I'd say, calpol is an effective treatment for a medical condition, therefore - NHS. Then, we go back to the issue of prioritising... What factors would I use in deciding priority need? Maybe- medical need, efficiency of treatment, quality of life following what would be deemed succesful treatment, cost to NHS per unit of treatment and per annual usage... I'm sure there are other factors too. What do you use?

    You've pretty much got it covered there. So one which of those grounds does laser hair removal fail?
    The irony there is that it appears they were and are now finding themselves working for NHS professionals back on the same wards, at a greater cost to the NHS. -Source, local nurse's gossip therefore accuracy not guaranteed.

    I'd like to say that it wouldn't happen, but I'm not so sure.

    When I asked about whether they were needed, I was trying to reflect the fact that acute hospitals are grossly inefficient. My worry is that many of the recent redundancies are knee jerk and are not being made in those inefficient areas, and that we will get the very thing you describe above.

    What makes it worse is that I know just how illinformed many managers are on that topic. I seriously don't have faith that they could tell you where their department is inefficient.
    I don't know very much at all about that at the moment.

    It's worth looking into. Basically the insurance companies wanted to put some financial breaks on their expenditure so they said to hospitals "we will only pay $n" for certain procedures/episodes of care. As a result the US hospitals had to become more efficient - hence their day case rate is much higher than ours (for example).

    Look at whatthe Govt has just introduced and the only difference is where the money comes from.
    Hmmm, well, I had actually categorised it as a mental health issue- would you categorise it differently?

    Nah, sorry missed that. Yes it's mental health, but surgery can sometimes lead to reduced demand on mental health services, so it's a balancing of costs. It is possible that it is cheaper to operate in some cases.

    When I said mountain and molehills earlier, you do realise that we are talking of about 1:200,000 population per year having this surgery?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    But why should the NHS pay for it?

    Indeed. Death is cheap.

    Perhaps we should cease removing tumours from patients. Of maybe just the benign ones...?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    Why should they pay to cure a serious and potentially life-threatening disease? I just think that if it's part of the treatment, laser hair removal should be allowed. If it causes someone to hate themselves and causes intense emotional distress, that's what the NHS is for.

    The reason why they should pay for lifethreatening diseases is because sometimes, something can be done to help prevent the disease spreading further and becoming worse...

    Surely preventing disease is more important (and benificial) to someone & their family than someone having a sex change? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    Surely preventing disease is more important (and benificial) to someone & their family than someone having a sex change? :rolleyes:

    Wasn't the assertion that suicide may follow from a lack of surgery? Isn't that preventative medicine?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed. Death is cheap.

    Perhaps we should cease removing tumours from patients. Of maybe just the benign ones...?

    Personally, I think that would depend on how far gone the tumour is and how bad it is.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    50% of transgender people attempt suicide (source unknown, it was quoted and referenced at NUS LGBT conference) - that makes gender dysphoria serious and life-threatening in my book.
    How many post-op attempt suicide?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Wasn't the assertion that suicide may follow from a lack of surgery? Isn't that preventative medicine?

    Is there any proof that transexuals will stop thinking about suicide after they've had their sex change?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd have a guess at it being mainly genetic, but I don't really have a clue. Just out of interest, does it usually materialise around puberty, or before? Because if it's hormone related then there's other treatment for that.

    Its a disfuctional section of the brain, I read. Something isn't produced enough when the person is in the womb and so they are born with it. The root cause is probably genetic, but its not certain.

    As for surgery, I am unsure. I would rate it higher than purely cosmetic surgery, for the psychological reasons involved. However, it isnt life threatening, as people have said, so it takes a lower priority (though suicide rates are higher among transsexuals). Its not so much a matter of should we do it, because we do pay our taxes in, including transsexuals, but more its priority.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    How many post-op attempt suicide?
    I was waiting for someone to bring that up and can't find a figure. Sorry. The implication, in the way I heard it expressed, was a significant decline in attempted suicides post-op but I can't cite it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    RE: free pain relief for children.
    I'm not sure that we don't.

    Might just be a local policy, but it's definatly in place- even on a bank holiday, at two in the morning, when you live in the sticks and nearest 24 garage is miles away, your child has been screaming for hours with an eardrum about to rupture, hospital conclude it's viral so antibiotics won't help, the advice is paracetamol and ibuprofen at maximum dose alternately every two hours, but no- we can't provide you with any... Helps create the opinion that the NHS is lacking resources, and goes towards the emotive response that until priority (in my opinion) needs are met, others shouldn't be.
    You've pretty much got it covered there. So one which of those grounds does laser hair removal fail?

    It didn't fail. My main conclusion is any effective treatment for all people. Where it appears that funds don't allow any for all, the hair removal failed the rank highly in my (in all likelyhood emotively formed) priority list.

    Nah, sorry missed that. Yes it's mental health, but surgery can sometimes lead to reduced demand on mental health services, so it's a balancing of costs. It is possible that it is cheaper to operate in some cases.

    When I said mountain and molehills earlier, you do realise that we are talking of about 1:200,000 population per year having this surgery?

    So, as an ethical question- is it not ok to forego the treatment of this very few, if the cost would go further spread around many with cheaper treatments? Purely hyperthetically, I say sod the few and save the many, only if I were to apply this to any situation that might affect me personally, 'sod the few' just doesn't hold up. Therefore, it's a good idea to not employ me to make these decisions :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quick Google returned the following:
    Both suicide attempts and completed suicides are common in transgendered persons. Studies generally report a pre-transition suicide attempt rate of 20% or more, with MTFs relatively more likely to attempt suicide than FTMs. There is some evidence that transsexual people are less likely to attempt suicide once they have completed the transition to the other sex.
    They don't quote their evidence though. :banghead:

    The full article is here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so, does that mean transition is an effective treament? Is there a % used to judge what treatments are effective or not?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    so, does that mean transition is an effective treament? Is there a % used to judge what treatments are effective or not?
    Not that I can find
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote:
    It's a bit like asking wether or not paranoid schizophrenics should be given close quaters protection to protect them from all those government conspirators out there.
    *hides* Meep.
    No disrespect, but it's not at all. Giving close quarters protection to paranoid schizophrenics wouldn't address the problem. Gender realignment surgery allows people to feel like their natural self and by and large is a fulfilment of the problem that's been making them unhappy.

    It goes without saying that it comes alongside intensive psychotherapy.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote:
    It's a bit like asking wether or not paranoid schizophrenics should be given close quaters protection to protect them from all those government conspirators out there.
    *hides* Meep.

    But isn't that more to do with protecting the schizophrenic from doing something harmful - whether it be to themseleves or a member of public?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    So you'd pay (effectively, through tax) for a complete stranger to have a sex change? :confused:
    What about paying for a little old lady you don't know to have a hip replacement?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they are not treating body dysphoria... Heck, let's not give NHS treatment to anybody with a mental illness.
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