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WHY IT IS WRONG TO BOMB AFGANISTAN!
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Today a 2 ton bomb landed on a village and killed many afgans.
That bomb cost £750,000, what a waste of money!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
I'll die before I surrender.
[This message has been edited by Mr Port (edited 22-10-2001).]
That bomb cost £750,000, what a waste of money!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
I'll die before I surrender.
[This message has been edited by Mr Port (edited 22-10-2001).]
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Then innocent people will have been killed <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/frown.gif">
Maybe a few more "innocents" being killed will spark a few more peasents into joining the NA or attempting to overthrow the taliban.
"Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
Well, I think that makes a point quite well. Who are the innocents? And what is the real justification for the current actions?
[This message has been edited by MacKenZie (edited 22-10-2001).]
no, a bomb was NOT dropped on an afghan village, mr port was thinking it was funny, the idea we are willing to spend £750,000 on killing what he seems to regard as pieces of shit.
so stop getting ur knickers in a twist and start blast mr port.
If there's anything more important than my ego around here, i want it caught and shot now
Who's side are you on anyway?? Oh, youre from Switzerland, sorry!! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"> <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif">
I'll die before I surrender.
mr port, if u will please, time for a short lecture. basically, u've got war between states, and u've got terrorism.
in war between states, switzerland is neutral, and its neutrality has bene respected for almost 200 years (last invader was napoleon, early 1800s)
however this is a war against terrorism, not the same, sorry to say. we're with the western world, oddly enuff. basel and bern have both had anthrax scares, no cases confirmed however.
and dear old CH has enuff worries of its own: 4 weeks ago, 14 dead in a massacre in Zug, a few days ago, fire in the Gotthard tunnel killed anywhere between 10 and 100 people, roof has collapsed thus swiss transport will be stretched even further, SAir has gone down the gurgler and people are finding out just how corrupt swiss business society is.
we'll watch the terrorists and the USAF go about their business from a distance.
oh, and i'm australian btw.
If there's anything more important than my ego around here, i want it caught and shot now
Stricken Afghanistan is an easy target, an ideal place for a "demonstration war" - a show of what America is prepared to do "where required", as the US ambassador to the United Nations said recently. "Who cares about Afghan peasants?". Moreover, people can be sprayed with bomblets that blow the heads off children, and we in the west are spared, or denied, the evidence. It is clear that most of the media are suppressing horrific images, as was done in the Gulf War slaughter.
www.stopwar.org.uk.
[This message has been edited by Steelgate (edited 31-10-2001).]
P
There would be no terrorist threat against America if it didn't arm Israel so that Israel could wage a war against the Palestinains forceing them off their land and massacering thousands of them in bombing raids on Palestinian towns. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 it killed thousands of people but there was no cndemnation from the USA and Britain then.
Western countries have caused the deaths of one million Iraqis through sanctions and caused extreme poverty in the Third World through the policies of the IMF and WTO which have caused crippling Third World debt and ruined the economies of many Third World countries.
Changing the Wests foreign policy would do far more to stop the threat from Islamic extremist terrorists than this war will ever do. But the west has no intention of changing its foreign policy it wants to be free to exploit the Arab world in its pursuit of profits and wealth from the region and crush all opposition to its plans.
We have never been friendly with the Taliban as a specific group. We were friendly with the Mujahadeen which includes ALL the Afghan fighters, northern alliance and taliban. We have never acknowledged the Taliban as a legit govt so its not a question of us having fallen out with them.
The west had absolutely nothing to do with the Taliban coming into power. We helped the Mujahadeen free their country from the invading Soviets. When the Mujahadeen split into warring factions, we didnt help either side.
Thats a blatent untruth. Bin Laden brought his own construction equipment from Saudi. It was his finance and his personal equipment that physically built the training camps.
If we change our policy in the middle east then doesnt that send a dangerous message to other terrorists that they can change whatever they want by killing 6k people.
You say the US is exploiting the arab world. Can you please explain why you believe this? They dont get the oil for free. They pay for every single gallon of that stuff. The money goes straight into the coffers of the already rich rulers of the arab nations. Please tell me how buying oil can be seen as exploitation.
Would you like to see the distruction of Israil and the slaughter off the 5 million jews that inhabit this country?
P
Once again you demonstrate that you don't know what the **** you're talking about. Osama bin Laden built al-Qaeda on the back of his own personal fortune. The Taleban were set up by the Pakistanis. The Mujihaddin formed as a resistance to the Soviet invasion, but failed to form anything resembling a coherent post-war government. They were aided by (among others) the CIA, the SAS, Pakistan and Iran.
Really? So standard-issue jealousy of the top dog doesn't apply in the smallest measure? How very noble of America's enemies.
No, I think you'll find that the reason most Third World economies are screwed is that the people there just don't have the mindset required to make it work. That's not racism, it's a fact. Free-market capitalism cannot successfully operate in a culture where corruption is considered the norm and tribal blood feuds continue unchecked.
Yes? And?
I, too, would like to see some pretty hefty shifts in foreign policy. However, I don't include stopping the bombing in that.
They're savages, and they pose a clear and present threat to evry reasoning human being. We can kill them, or we can educate them. Unfortunately, with regimes like the Taleban in place, we have to kill before we can educate.
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both.
-- Robert Heinlein
You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics. But not much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.
And why do you always bring Israel into it anyway? It isnt a case of America keeping them armed anymore, they have sufficient industrial and economic capacity to manufacture or buy their own weaponry. Hence the reason why they don't use American tanks anymore. The only reason Al Quaeda use it as an excuse, and the only reason hippy lefties use it as an excuse is because they can't actually think of a better reason.
And who gives a flying fuck if 1 million Iraqis have died...!?!? They died because of the fault of Saddam, if he hadn't opposed us, there would be no UN sanctions and the people wouldn't be starving. Oh, and before anyone comes up with some thing about it still being the USA's fault, these are UNITED NATIONS sanctions, not American. That means it is the collective will of all the UN members to impose sanctions, not just the USA.
Who gives a flying fuck?
Umm.....the guys who flew the planes into the towers?
Maybe they gave a flying fuck.
Dumb ass.
Those people probably had no idea of what actually happened, and you probably don't either.
Sure the Gulf war was about Oil, but it was also a bid to prevent Saddam from manufacturing nuclear and bio weapons. If it hadn't been for us, then Kuwait would be a lovely steaming pile of radioactive slag right now, and if all we actually get from the people who live there is shit from you, I wish Kuwait was a wasteland, well more of a waste land than it already is.
The terrorists, like you were fed one sided propaganda, they were told if they kill thousands of people they will go to heaven.
Israel and Iraq have nothing to do with this, Osama and his leftie associates use those countries as some sort of sick excuse to justify his actions, even though like I said Israel is now perfectly capable of looking after itself without US support, and we are all aware that if Saddam stops trying to manufacture weapons of mass destruction his people will stop starving. But Saddam is a fanatical dictator, something Osama aspires to be. That is why Iraq is such a shithole.
"We're not at war with the Afghan people -- look, we're bringing them food!"
Reality: Afghanistan is in the midst of a severe drought which threatens literally millions of people with starvation. Even before the threat of U.S. bombing, the World Food Program (WFP) said that nearly 6 million people were in need of immediate food assistance. When the threat of war caused massive movements of refugees and internally displaced people, the WFP raised that number to 7.5 million. UN agencies were keeping huge numbers of people alive, but the war danger -- as well as the U.S. demand that Pakistan seal its border with Afghanistan -- caused the WFP to suspend deliveries of wheat flour to the country. We have no idea how many people have already died as a result. Meanwhile, the U.S. dropped 37,000 individually-wrapped packages of food from the sky. You do the math. That's enough to feed about 37,000 people for one day, in a country where seven and a half million are in danger of starvation. Additionally, the spokesman for an international charity active in Afghanistan told the London Independent that "Random food drops are the worst possible way of delivering food aid. They cause more problems than they solve." Not the least of which is the fact that Afghanistan has the highest number of unexploded land mines in the world. There are already 10 or 15 mine incidents every day, and with people scrambling into mine-ridden areas to pick up random packages of food dropped from U.S. planes, that number is only going to go up.
"Oil? Who said anything about oil?"
Reality: The Caspian Sea region has potentially the world's largest oil reserves, likely making Central Asia the next Middle East. The problem is piping it out. Afghanistan occupies a strategic position between the Caspian and the markets of the Indian subcontinent and east Asia. It's prime territory for building pipelines, which is why the oil company Unocal -- as well as the U.S. government -- welcomed the Taliban's rise to power in 1996 as a promising source of "stability." That turned out to be a pipe dream (so to speak), but people like our Commander-in-Chief and the oil men around him have never given up on the tremendous profit possibilities that Central Asia offers. And if you don't think such considerations are crossing their minds at this time of crisis, may we suggest a refresher course in The Facts of Life?
"The U.S. is trying to liberate the people of Afghanistan from Taliban tyranny."
Reality: The U.S., Russia, and Iran have been aiding a rough coalition of armed groups called the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance's fighters are drawn mainly from ethnic minority groups in Afghanistan who have been persecuted by the Taliban. But their record is also a bloody one. Groups like the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), which have been fighting against fundamentalism and for democracy in Afghanistan for years, have publicly stated that the fundamentalist gangsters of the Northern Alliance are not an acceptable alternative to the fundamentalist gangsters of the Taliban. No wonder: Human Rights Watch implicates the Northern Alliance in "indiscriminate aerial bombardment and shelling, direct attacks on civilians, summary executions, rape, persecution on the basis of religion or ethnicity, the recruitment and use of children as soldiers, and the use of antipersonnel landmines." By now everyone knows that Osama bin Laden was among the mujihadin recruited by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. Meet the next generation.
And the biggest lie of them all . . .
"It's possible to win a 'war against terrorism.'"
Reality: Terrorism is a tactic, not a political or social force in and of itself. Anyone can use it, and the idea that you can wage a "war" against it is as dishonest as the idea behind the "War on Drugs." The use of food as a political weapon, indiscriminate aerial bombardment, and the arming of gangsterish groups of religious fanatics all count as "terrorism" by any reasonable definition of the word, and the United States has long employed all of them -- and more. This war is really about sordid material interests and power, and in defense of these interests the U.S. is prepared to shift the label "terrorist" as it sees fit, to apply to all manner of dissident political movements and not just marginal bands of fanatics like bin Laden's al-Qa'ida. Conversely, it's willing to call its own terrorists "freedom fighters". Maybe some of them will get transformed into "terrorists" again in a few years. It's a sick game and a charade, and the government is manipulating the very real grief and anger of the people of the United States after the September 11 atrocities to get us all to fall for it again. Don't believe them for a second.