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America is the big Terroist

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
American and British army bomb a village and killed 100 civilian hope you are happy now!!
http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/images/2001/10/12/1_60122_1_6.jpg

<IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/images/2001/10/9/1_59708_1_11.jpg"&gt;

(Edited by Dom - please just post links to images, and not the image itself. Cheers)

[This message has been edited by Dom Waghorn (edited 12-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Amon* (edited 12-10-2001).]

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Welcome back Amon,

    This story was on our news yesterday. Of course its not been verified and is just the word of the Taliban.

    I understand that as a citizen of the UAE, you arent used to unbiased news but you really should take a look at another news service other than aljazeera.

    Can you give me a single possibly reason why our planes would deliberately bomb an entire village? There is nothing to be gained from that whatsoever. I dont believe the story for a second and its a shame that you cannot see past taliban propaganda...You think its a coincidence that the taliban have removed ALL western journalists from the country? Or could it possibly be that they only want to put their 'news' out of the country?

    BTW..the picture of the injured child could be from anywhere, anytime. It looks remarkably like the pictures of injured palestinian and israeli kids. Its a horrible pic but it proves nothing.

    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I too doubt that the US intentionally bombed a village - however, because of the inaccuracy af the bombs they could quite easily have missed their intended targets. I believe that some of the bombs have something like a 2% accuracy rate. Is it really worth the risk for actions which will probably not yield Bin Laden?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it is even stranger for several reasons.
    1.Apparently it was a single bomb that caused so much destruction, but the other day they showed footage of the UN building, demolished saying a cruise missile had hit it. But none of the other buildings were damaged. A cruise missile has 1 tonne of explosive, so I doubt the UN building was our fault at all. The same goes for the village, the Taliban have no sense of consistency.

    2.Why, if we did attack innocents would we waste munitions on such easy targets? Bearing in mind that these attacks are launcehd from carriers, which have limited supplies.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    al,

    I think we can see that the USAF isnt the most accurate of bodies judging by the events in the gulf. I believe they killed more US troops than the Iraqis.

    BUT.. In order to kill 100 people a bomb would have to drop on top of a church service or into a building crampt with loadsa people. They are only dropping large bombs which means 1, maybe 2 bombs per target. Sorry but I just dont believe that 100 people were killed in one go by the US bombing..

    You can be rest assured that none of todays bombs have anywhere near as low as a 2% accuracy rate. That is less than the bombs of WW2. Not sure if this was a bomb or missile but the missiles are accurate to 20 feet. The laser guided bombs are about the same. The 'dumb'? bombs that drop without laser or GPS guidance are probably only about 75% accurate BUT I was under the impression that we hadnt used the dumb bombs yet.

    Sorry but this story has about as much credibility as me saying I like liberals. Nobody in the western world is going to believe these stories unless they are independantly verified..Of course the arab world will lap it all up as they know no better.

    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I too doubt whether 100 people were killed, it's too 'round' a number, perhaps 23 were killed, 15 injured, etc.. BUT do you really believe that ALL the 'smart bombs' hit their target directly? I'm gonna go find some stuff to back me up, but I really do think some of the bombs have an accuracy of 2% - plus there's the fact that they're sending B52s out there - big payload, lots of bombs = random carpet bombing.

    Anyway, be back with a link soon...

    [This message has been edited by al (edited 12-10-2001).]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by al:
    I too doubt whether 100 people were killed, it's too 'round' a number, perhaps 23 were killed, 15 injured, etc.. BUT do you really believe that ALL the 'smart bombs' hit their target directly? I'm gonna go find some stuff to back me up, but I really do think some of the bombs have an accuracy of 2% - plus there's the fact that they're sending B53s out there - big payload, lots of bombs = random carpet bombing.

    Anyway, be back with a link soon...


    They aren't carpet bombing though, they are using precision weapons.
    If they were carpet bombing even they have a higher accuracy than 2%, and carpet bombs would kill a lot more people than 100. It is Taliban propaganda, nothing more.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_879000/879560.stm

    ok - so not as bad as I first quoted, but why do you believe that all the bombs hit their targets, what proof can you offer other than that which the govt offers?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Random opinion;- I thought the B-52's were capable of mid-air launching of cruise missiles. Seems a bit more likely than carpet bombing.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BUT do you really believe that ALL the 'smart bombs' hit their target directly?

    Nope but nobody is claiming they are 100%. This story however, I dont believe.
    plus there's the fact that they're sending B52s out there - big payload, lots of bombs = random carpet bombing.

    Im afraid thats just not true. They are not going to carpet bomb anything. The heavy bombers were used to take out the anti-air defences of the Taleban which will enable the smaller fighter/bombs to do their work more safely. We are now moving into this stageand you will see a lot less heavy bombers and a lot more harriers/tornados/f15s etc etc.
    but why do you believe that all the bombs hit their targets, what proof can you offer other than that which the govt offers?

    Nobody is saying they all hit...The bombings in Kosovo was in '98 right? Even in such a short time military things have advanced. The smart bombs and missiles are now linked into GPS systems rather than directly guided in by a guy on the ground pointing a laser.

    LOL is right. The B52s can carry something like 8-16 cruise missiles.

    You can be assured that carpet bombing will not be used. It would cause way too much of an outrage in the arab community.

    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've mentioned this before, but for Amon the building that was blown up and they were claiming to have housed the 4 UN workers that were killed, how come the leaves were still on the trees, I have blown various things up and always any tree nearby lost it's leaves. Other footage that shows so called new bomb craters are not new some had vegitation growing and the earth was hard packed around the rim, not new caters at all.

    The US did not bomb a village on purpose or by mistake, (although mistakes can and will happen) it's propagander if it was for real we would have footage of bodies, injured in hospital etc etc.

    peacechild
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by peacechild:
    The US did not bomb a village on purpose or by mistake, (although mistakes can and will happen) it's propagander if it was for real we would have footage of bodies, injured in hospital etc etc.

    so the western reporters who visited were imagining things?


  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It seems like another of those irregular verbs.

    we report estimates,
    you report ball-park figures,
    they report propoganda.

    <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so the western reporters who visited were imagining things?

    The western reporters were shown what the taliban wanted them to see and nothing more. Theres more than enough rubble around to say that one part was done by the US.

    Youre very naive if you think they arent using propaganda. We would do the same if in their hopeless position. Their only hope is to turn public opinion against the war.

    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    The western reporters were shown what the taliban wanted them to see and nothing more. Theres more than enough rubble around to say that one part was done by the US.
    do you think that I or (more importantly) they didn't know that? that they failed to take that into account when reporting?

    Youre very naive if you think they arent using propaganda. We would do the same if in their hopeless position.
    You're very naive if you think our militaries, and governments aren't "spinning" anyway.
    Their only hope is to turn public opinion against the war.

    Is it? Look the Iraq/Kurd thing. If I were the Taliban I'd be aiming to sit the thing out
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're very naive if you think our militaries, and governments aren't "spinning" anyway.

    Oh I know what our govt is capable of..I dont believe a thing they say unless someone else confirms it. I learned a long time ago not to watch the BBC and lap it all up as gospel.
    Is it? Look the Iraq/Kurd thing. If I were the Taliban I'd be aiming to sit the thing out

    I have a feeling we arent gonna stop half way through the war against the taliban like we did in iraq. The taliban will be utterly destroyed. Theres no option for them to sit it out.



    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't reply at your replies because it is more easy to reply at the stone than you. You saw the pictures and even do, don't beleive.
    So, Do you know I wish to be A man because in this case I can go and fight, and fight in the land not in the airplane where I know that my enemy don't have the same ability that I have so I kill the innocent people. I fight as man not as cow. I fight in the light not in the night. America is the big cow her it always fight in the night and don't dare fight in the land until it think that the place is good for her and no one threat them. but I am a woman. and even so I will do many things to help my brothers and my sisters. we know fight America economic we don't buy American stuff and british. And we try to make people understand that and stop buying. we also, do many think but it will be not as fighting. So don't think we are sleeping because we are not


    Ohhhh Afghani you are my brother and cousin your blood is my blood and your trouble is my trouble
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amon,
    that picture could be 15 years old for all you know. It could be from a completely different country.
    would you be so supportive of the Taliban if you lived in Afghanistan? I didn't think so. Would you be so supportive of Bin Laden if he had killed 7000 of your people? I didn't think so. Why don't you goto www.msn.co.uk and read about the war there? It is far more unbiased than anything else we or you have.

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amon,

    We have this thing over here called freedom of the press..We arent forced to watch one single state TV station. We have trouble believing the stories from the one single TV company that is allowed to film from inside taliban areas...If ANY independant news agency could confirm the story then I would believe it...While its coming from a known supporter of the taliban then I dont believe a word of it.

    As for the pictures...Well I can go to my local hospital, take a picture of an injured child and claim they were injured by another terrorist attack carried out by Al-Queda...If nobody was allowed to check on this story would you believe it????

    You and you afghani brothers are in for a huge shock if you think America is a cow. They may have had some success against 15 year old russian conscripts while being supplied with US weapons but the US military is a totally different animal.

    Keep watching the news and you will see your afghani brothers surrendering by the thousand when they come upon the US troops..I remember that your good friend Saddam Hussein also thought the US was a fat cow and wouldnt be able to break his huge army and his elite republican guard...we know how that turned out <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"&gt;

    "Let's roll......" Todd Beamer, American Hero
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amon, I must commend you for being true to your own cause. Certainly will find no fault from me on that one. We don't agree about much and I am not in the least interested in 'saving' you from yourself and my own faith prohibits conversion...so perhaps it is safe to talk.

    We in the 'West' have even less interest in islam than you can imagine...it is not a love/hate thing but rather a pervading indifference...much like that of folks who have little or no interest in ragged and worn 'antiques' which are nothing more than leftovers from another area and without the charm of either elegance or art...just old junk. We will buy your oil, your beautiful rugs made lovengly with child labor, and perhaps a few other 'trinkets' but little else is of interest...certainly groveling on the floor to worship a 'diety' is without interest or widespread acceptance from folks who look to the heavens with outstretched arms and great expectation.

    islam now has its 'holy warrior of god' with a vision of draging the world back to the sixth or seventh century...and admittedly, in some parts of the world that just might be an improvement...whether it is for you or not is only a question that you can answer for yourself...but we (I) know that the terror is there for you on a personal level because one misstep and your brother, cousin, father must slay you for that imagined indiscression...perhaps this gives you security and perhaps you dare not support any other view because of the promise of impending doom from within.

    We, US, are proud of or enemey, there is nothing halfway about them...they really want to destroy US and everything we represent in the world...and with greater resolve we don't intend to let them. If some 'warriors' cower and hide in the mosks and among crowds of civilians then they will only find that these will neither shield them or provide the cover they seek...!

    We don't hate you, islam, really don't have much interest in you...indifference about covers it...and when matters get a bit out hand and must be addressed as with the current situation than adequate and sufficient force will be used to maintian a norm which we approve...if others can be less honest they have only their own shame for a judge.

    Amon, be at peace, you are in a safe place...you are a lady of islam...you will never be allowed to take up arms to protect your men and children...when you see women of the West wearing combat uniforms and carying weapons just know in your heart that you won't be called to serve in like manner.

    Diesel

    88888888
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Balddog:
    I learned a long time ago not to watch the BBC and lap it all up as gospel.

    I learnt a long time ago to lap up all sources of information and analysis that came my way, and to make up my own opinion based upon all of them. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"&gt;


    You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics. But not much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.

    [This message has been edited by MacKenZie (edited 19-10-2001).]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://pages.prodigy.net/allret/AHardLesson2.jpg

    Diesel

    88888888

    [This message has been edited by Diesel (edited 21-10-2001).]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah well let's look at the stats, even if all the civilian deaths are real, the US still has a few thosand more to go before we come close to the attack on the WTC. So blow me!

    So what if we are a army (and Marine Corps) of darkness, isn't Allah supposed to protect you from dark forces? Thermal imaging is cool, ok it's pretty hot for the people on the other end when the package is delivered <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/biggrin.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Yeah well let's look at the stats, even if all the civilian deaths are real, the US still has a few thosand more to go before we come close to the attack on the WTC. So blow me!"

    Aha! so it is revenge not jusitce you are after. I ask you, hypertheticaly, if the US kills 7010 afgan civilians does that give the Afgans good reason to kill another 10 US civilians. If so where does it stop? If not does it only work in one direction?

    (assuming that exactly 7000 people died in WTC)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by [T]:
    Aha! so it is revenge not jusitce you are after.

    /me is intrigued.

    The difference being? Without recourse to any of the things I decry in my signature, if you please.




    You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics. But not much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The diferance?

    Ones got seven letters the other has nine. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Id est, none.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    AMON,

    Osama and the boys have come up on the big dogs porch! Now he's got a problem. The Japanese were not afraid to die and we beat them.Funny how just like the taliban they thought they would go to heaven too! Osama woke a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve! Our military is going to kill him and there is not thing one anyone in the world can do to prevent that.
    Folks are going to find it is probably better to leave the Americans alone! The more Americans are attacked the angrier the people of America get.
    People don't realize just how terible a thing it is to tangle with an unleashed American military. The gloves are off! <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif"&gt;
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Amon, go and become a martyr, that would suit me fine.

    Once you are a martyr come back and let us know whether it is as good as you seem to think it will be.

    peacechild

    Peace through superior firepower
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MacKenZie,
    I disagree, but I'm not in the right state of mind to argue about it. So you win <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt;

    p.s could you please tell me why there is no difference, without using the letters or simbols af any language? Thanks. <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/wink.gif"&gt;
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