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Religious people know they are full of shit.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i could have sworn some guys were splitting atoms ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    You were taught atomic theory. There is no proof for them, it's just a model that explains a lot that really goes on.

    Physicists will happily tell you that it's a lie, just a useful one.
    So what makes atomic theory any worse than any of your theories?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I haven;t got any theories. I am saying in the absence of evidence OR a coherent theory there is nothing else.

    Atomic theory lets you do stuff, make experiments in the real world.

    Oddly enough, thinking god exists does exactly the opposite.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    I haven;t got any theories. I am saying in the absence of evidence OR a coherent theory there is nothing else.

    Atomic theory lets you do stuff, make experiments in the real world.

    Oddly enough, thinking god exists does exactly the opposite.
    Ok, there must be a framework, or underpinning set of rules as to how you could tell that man at your door was lying.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, there must be a framework, or underpinning set of rules as to how you could tell that man at your door was lying.

    Yes, there is.

    I could tell by watching him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    can anyone tell me ...where are you?
    who are you?
    can i see you?

    as in ...i crack your skull open and your not there ...just flesh and blood ...where is the I?

    WHERE IS YOUR PERSON ...YOUR EMOTION ...YOUR IDEAS?

    I THINK YOU'LL FIND NOTHING MORE THAN ELECTROCHEMICL MACHINERY BUT ...YOU WON'T FIND YOU AND ME ...AS DIFFICULT AS FINDING GOD. oops caps
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Then why do you assume "you" and "me" exist?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Then why do you assume "you" and "me" exist?
    you don't ...

    can you name me anything else apart from the human mind that isn't made of matter?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    can you name me anything else apart from the human mind that isn't made of matter?

    The human mind isn't a thing, Mr. Roll.

    It exists in the same way that runners exist, swimmers exist, skydivers exist.

    That is, they are a product of an action, incorrectly labeled as nouns.

    "You" are just a product of the action of your brain and body. It's a pretty big "just", mind you.

    It always tickles me when people believe in things like "personality" or "depression", it really does.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Then why do you assume "you" and "me" exist?
    klint,cards on the table now,what are you?

    what do you believe in?

    what are your basic principles for life,love etc?

    i read your posts and can never really work out what you stand for,if anything.
    do you just play devils advocate for the sake of it?,for entertainment perhaps?

    your a propper confuse-a-cat!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klint,cards on the table now,what are you?

    Just a bloke mate. Simple guy, kinda thing.
    what do you believe in?

    Only things that don't require any belief.
    what are your basic principles for life,love etc?
    i read your posts and can never really work out what you stand for,if anything.

    Freedom. I want as much as possible to be voluntary at all times. A problem is that folk don't know the truth of things and that really is the main reason for making crap decsions.
    your a propper confuse-a-cat!

    I am at that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    The human mind isn't a thing, Mr. Roll.

    It exists in the same way that runners exist, swimmers exist, skydivers exist.

    That is, they are a product of an action, incorrectly labeled as nouns.

    "You" are just a product of the action of your brain and body. It's a pretty big "just", mind you.

    It always tickles me when people believe in things like "personality" or "depression", it really does.
    your a plank.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    your a plank.

    >sigh<
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    >sigh<
    i believe you will eventually disappear up your own arsehole tbh
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DEANO MAC wrote:
    i believe you will eventually disappear up your own arsehole tbh
    klint believes he knows what all the worlds scientists and philosophers and religous figures have been struggling with for centuries and continue to do so ...when all they need is ...klints phone number!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klint believes he knows what all the worlds scientists and philosophers and religous figures have been struggling with for centuries and continue to do so ...when all they need is ...klints phone number!
    :lol:
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    klintock wrote:
    The human mind isn't a thing, Mr. Roll.

    It exists in the same way that runners exist, swimmers exist, skydivers exist.

    That is, they are a product of an action, incorrectly labeled as nouns.

    "You" are just a product of the action of your brain and body. It's a pretty big "just", mind you.

    It always tickles me when people believe in things like "personality" or "depression", it really does.

    I can agree with you on that. They don't EXIST as such (What are we, Plato, and still beleive in "The Good" hich holds concepts in it in real form?). They are actions being labelled as something else.

    Like a man who is shown around a Hospital, sees all the patients, nurses, doctors, equipment and buildings... and says "So, where is the hospital?".

    Mind is just a function of the brain. Anyone who begs to differ, please SHOW ME the FILES inside my computer without turning it on. Why can I not see the Mind/Eternal Soul (Same thing tbh) of a dead man? Because he is "off". Like my computer. So please... don't tell me something exists such as "mind" when there is NO EVIDENCE in ANY WAY at all it does. It exist in the same sense as Windows on my PC exists, it is just the actions my PC is doing. My mind is the action of my brain. Simple.

    I still don't think people who are religous but don't bother with organised religion are doing anything wrong. But those in organised religion can get stuffed. Hipocritical and wrong. Deep down they must know, they read the Holy Book of whatever they follow... so must see the wrong?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yay!!!

    Someone else gets it.

    And Deano - I've been up my own arsehole for so long that sometimes that's all that's left.

    What implications does this have for depression etc though?

    Pretty profound ones. If it's just a case of operating the brain in certain ways to produce "depression", we change the operating of the brain to make you "happy".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    But those in organised religion can get stuffed. Hipocritical and wrong.

    Obviously you don't believe in the English language either.

    Why are they hypocritical?

    Are you going to prove they are wrong?
    Deep down they must know, they read the Holy Book of whatever they follow... so must see the wrong?

    What wrong?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    What implications does this have for depression etc though?

    Nothing especially profound.

    It's not a new thing to say that people behave in ways because of environment and upbringing.

    But what do you have to say about the increasingly conclusive proof that depressiopn is hereditary?

    Not that I expect much, genes don't exist :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    I haven;t got any theories. I am saying in the absence of evidence OR a coherent theory there is nothing else.
    Yet you believe in NLP?

    Or is that somebody else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yet you believe in NLP?

    Nope. I just use it and it seems to work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    I


    Mind is just a function of the brain. Anyone who begs to differ, please SHOW ME the FILES inside my computer without turning it on. Why can I not see the Mind/Eternal Soul (Same thing tbh) of a dead man? Because he is "off". Like my computer. So please... don't tell me something exists such as "mind" when there is NO EVIDENCE in ANY WAY at all it does. It exist in the same sense as Windows on my PC exists, it is just the actions my PC is doing. My mind is the action of my brain. Simple.

    ?
    no evidence!
    all the music architecture peotry war love hate etcetcetc ...is evidence of mind and personality!
    you have a verylow opiniion of yourself if you see your own mind/personality as nothing more than an operating system.
    is windows a by product my pc creates?
    i think not.
    who wrote the complex code for windows?
    who installed it?

    scientists right now are grappling with the complexities of the hiuman brain ...the physical brain ...the most complex structure yet founfd in the universe ...how electo chemical reactions can produce ideas ...emotions ...personality ...is at the moment wAy beyond our understanding and some think it will stay that way forever.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    no evidence!
    all the music architecture peotry war love hate etcetcetc ...is evidence of mind and personality!
    you have a verylow opiniion of yourself if you see your own mind/personality as nothing more than an operating system.
    is windows a by product my pc creates?
    i think not.
    who wrote the complex code for windows?
    who installed it?

    scientists right now are grappling with the complexities of the hiuman brain ...the physical brain ...the most complex structure yet founfd in the universe ...how electo chemical reactions can produce ideas ...emotions ...personality ...is at the moment wAy beyond our understanding and some think it will stay that way forever.

    I didn't say it was a "by product" - I said it is just the way it opperates. The poetry and music are the things the brain does!

    Why are we still stuck with being unable to accept this and looking for more? Windows doesn't EXIST - it is the product of the PC doing its job. The brains job is to opperate in this way - it IS the mind. The brain IS what people ahve for so long called the mind.

    Just because you cannot yet see it and its complexities because you are looking for the wrong thing. You look for physical somethings, and moan because you cannot see little thoughts zipping about. You cannot pull an idea of of my brain, so claim it is in some storage bank called "mind". Yet you can detect the impulses and charges going about - they are that. Electronic siginals inside the most powerful computer ever to exist. The brain is just that. With the most complex opperating system developed and evolving over millinos of years to what it is today. Still a few bugs in it, though.
    Makes me wonder if cannabis is like overclocking your brain?

    The charges flying aobut your brain between neurons are like a computers opperation. This "mind" is like the programs running on it - so many all at once, so many ideas and thoughs and processes all maintained. It is an amazing thing, but looking for a non-physical mind that is somehow removed and a seperate thing from the brain is a terrible legacy left by bygone peoples who didn't understand. They built a language with two seperate things - mind and brain - and so engrained in society the idea there are two seperate things. Really they both refer to the same - the brain and what it does. "Mind" if you will, is a function of the brain. Nothing more. I am not taking anything away from the mind - I am just moving its position and what it is. It is not an eternal thing - the brain stops working, the mind is gone - like a computer being off. It doesn't Go to heaven, or Remain on earth forever. Or get given a new body after a thousand year journey, or any of that. It ceases to exist. Where does windows go when the PC is off and the hard disk blanked? It doesn't exist there anymore (Often followed by foul language).

    If you look for mind, you find the brain and its processes. The trouble is there is no universal standard - so we say "ah, it is all in the mind then. Shame we can't find it!". One set of rules doesn't work because each brain is different and functions differently. Computers are simpler - all the same, all generic, all work the same. If they were like brains it would take years to use them, and then you would only know a few of them! I don't have a low opinion of the brain - it is the most powerful thing ever! I don't think that however, the mind is some intangible thing we cannot know - it is what the brain does, like my PC runs windows, but it is on a far higher more complex scale.

    Mind = Brain. In the same way the components of my PC individually do not give me windows or programs, but all running together whilst on they do. That is why the "mind" is not acessable - we look at the component parts and wonder, but we cannot just plug it in like a PC and press on - you need the body with it. And as a famous philosohper once said - We are using the mind to study the mind. We can't just detach ourselves and look at it another way.

    I doubt we will ever know the truth about the brains functioning - but hey. It isn't stopping us yet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Top post. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    I didn't say it was a "by product" - I said it is just the way it opperates. The poetry and music are the things the brain does!

    Why are we still stuck with being unable to accept this and looking for more? Windows doesn't EXIST - it is the product of the PC doing its job. The brains job is to opperate in this way - it IS the mind. The brain IS what people ahve for so long called the mind.

    Just because you cannot yet see it and its complexities because you are looking for the wrong thing. You look for physical somethings, and moan because you cannot see little thoughts zipping about. You cannot pull an idea of of my brain, so claim it is in some storage bank called "mind". Yet you can detect the impulses and charges going about - they are that. Electronic siginals inside the most powerful computer ever to exist. The brain is just that. With the most complex opperating system developed and evolving over millinos of years to what it is today. Still a few bugs in it, though.
    Makes me wonder if cannabis is like overclocking your brain?

    The charges flying aobut your brain between neurons are like a computers opperation. This "mind" is like the programs running on it - so many all at once, so many ideas and thoughs and processes all maintained. It is an amazing thing, but looking for a non-physical mind that is somehow removed and a seperate thing from the brain is a terrible legacy left by bygone peoples who didn't understand. They built a language with two seperate things - mind and brain - and so engrained in society the idea there are two seperate things. Really they both refer to the same - the brain and what it does. "Mind" if you will, is a function of the brain. Nothing more. I am not taking anything away from the mind - I am just moving its position and what it is. It is not an eternal thing - the brain stops working, the mind is gone - like a computer being off. It doesn't Go to heaven, or Remain on earth forever. Or get given a new body after a thousand year journey, or any of that. It ceases to exist. Where does windows go when the PC is off and the hard disk blanked? It doesn't exist there anymore (Often followed by foul language).

    If you look for mind, you find the brain and its processes. The trouble is there is no universal standard - so we say "ah, it is all in the mind then. Shame we can't find it!". One set of rules doesn't work because each brain is different and functions differently. Computers are simpler - all the same, all generic, all work the same. If they were like brains it would take years to use them, and then you would only know a few of them! I don't have a low opinion of the brain - it is the most powerful thing ever! I don't think that however, the mind is some intangible thing we cannot know - it is what the brain does, like my PC runs windows, but it is on a far higher more complex scale.

    Mind = Brain. In the same way the components of my PC individually do not give me windows or programs, but all running together whilst on they do. That is why the "mind" is not acessable - we look at the component parts and wonder, but we cannot just plug it in like a PC and press on - you need the body with it. And as a famous philosohper once said - We are using the mind to study the mind. We can't just detach ourselves and look at it another way.

    I doubt we will ever know the truth about the brains functioning - but hey. It isn't stopping us yet.
    sooo ...i wonder why all the specialists in this field are putting in so much effort to find what mind is and how it comes about.
    yes i know it needs all the electro chemical impulses to keep it 'alive' ...i don't expect it togo anywhere ...
    i'll have to dig you out some current research and thinking.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    sooo ...i wonder why all the specialists in this field are putting in so much effort to find what mind is and how it comes about.
    yes i know it needs all the electro chemical impulses to keep it 'alive' ...i don't expect it togo anywhere ...
    i'll have to dig you out some current research and thinking.

    We've been studying it and various peoples thoughts.
    This is the one I best like as it agrees with my thinking on the matter. No-one yet knows what this mind is - as said, I doubt if we ever shall, as we must use mind to study mind and we can't just cut open a dead person and find it - because it isn't there anymore! We can't open a live preson - as it would kill them.

    Bit of a balls situation, eh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What are your thoughts made of then?

    I've got a good idea as it happens............
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    What are your thoughts made of then?

    I've got a good idea as it happens............
    thoughts are made up of past situations(experience),the brain starts as a blank canvas,but becomes far greater than the sum total of its component parts.
    the ability to evaluate and reason with information recieved from the past and use this for a possible action for the future...thats as far as is possible to understand imo.
    i believe there is another dimension to life as we see it,we just can't at the moment.
    as technology develops i think we will start to understand more,we may even prove that ghosts exist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    What are your thoughts made of then?

    I've got a good idea as it happens............
    yours are probably made of broken biscuits.
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