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Religious people know they are full of shit.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe that some religious people maybe don't believe it but want it to be true so they can feel secure within themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the bible says that blind faith is no faith and that all things should be checked out.
    it also talks about the unbelievers as being spiritualy blinded ...klint has a huge blind spot.
    the faCT KLINT CANNOT DESCERN THINGS OTHERS CAN IS HIS LOSS.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    true...it seems he lives in a very impoverished world, where the only things he believes in are the things he can reach out and touch with his fingers.
    all he believes are his eyes ...and his eyes they just tell him lies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the bible says that blind faith is no faith and that all things should be checked out.

    And also claims to be the word of something imaginary. Of course, even the drooling mad might say something worthwhile by accident.
    the faCT KLINT CANNOT DESCERN THINGS OTHERS CAN IS HIS LOSS.

    The fact that there is nothing to discern means there is no loss at all.
    true...it seems he lives in a very impoverished world, where the only things he believes in are the things he can reach out and touch with his fingers.

    So the people with the richest experience of life are those who see things that aren't there?

    Pop along to your local asylum and see if your right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How are you so sure your senses aren't being deceived? Our senses are capable of being deceived, and our perceptions of the "facts" are frequently mistaken. The things that you think you see may not really be there either.

    The only way you know your senses have been decieved is from information that you get from your senses.

    And again, quite ho this fundamental uncertainty in the basics of existence leads to proof that there is a god is going to take some explaining.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't be too hard on klintock, its not his fault he has Aspergers Syndrome. :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not at all.

    My position is clear.

    1) In the absence of evidence, you cannot say something exists, in fact you must say that it doesn't until proof arrives.

    2) There is no evidence for the existence of god.

    It's puely and simply not a case of having to disprove that god exists, that starts from a postion of their being one. Any doubting position, either weak or strong must start from a state of nature - i.e. that he who claims something must provide proof for it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't mind Blagsta, he is a schizophrenic. Lucky for him he has lots of company or he'd be safely locked away.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why? Until evidence arrives that something exists, you must say it doesn't exist? What a ludicrous position!

    :confused:
    Was the earth still round before we had evidence that it was round? Or did it only become round once we had found proof?

    People believed it was flat because that's what the sensory evidence told them was so. If you tell them it is actually a big sphere. your the one who has to prove it. Having done so, job's a good 'un. (Unless you are using myths as an excuse to violently suppress millions ofc, then you look a bit of a juggins)
    Was Everest always the highest mountain on the planet, before it had been explored and charted, or did it only become so once we had found proof?

    Guy comes up to you, says Everest is the worlds highest mountian. You say, "how do you know?" he explains measurement used etc and you can soon see if he is right or not. Religious people do not do this. They go "there is a mountain that you cannot see, hear, or otherwise measure that is bigger than all the others". You say "proof please" and they say "I don't need to prove it exists, you have to prove it doesn't. Which is bollocks..
    Until proof arrives, surely you must say that it is unknown whether or not something exists, that we just don't know. To say that it doesn't exist until we have proof it is exists is entirely illogical and incoherent. If I found evidence tomorrow that proved scientifically, beyond all doubt, that God exists, would that mean that he didn't exist yesterday?

    Nope. His existence is awaiting proof. In the absence of proof we say he doesn't exist. Unverified theory is held to be currently false. Unverifiable theory is known to be nonsense.
    As I've said in an earlier post, the believer sees evidence of the existence of God everyday. When she perceives the same facts that you do, she interprets them in such a way that they provide proof of her faith.

    Ok. How? We have similar neurology, we are capable of using language etc so if one can do it, others can do it. So...how?
    I'm still not trying to argue for the existence of God, but I find your confidence that there absolutely cannot be one because you've never seen him arrogant beyond belief.

    Fair enough, but it is only sensible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well unfortunately, no theory is verifiable


    Wrong. I claim that all things fall at the same rate in a vacuum. We set up an experiment. We find out I am right. Verifiable theory.
    So if your criterion for judging what is genuine knowledge hinges on its ability to be verified, you lose all of empirical science, as well as religion and metaphyiscal speculation. Kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater there...

    Nope. All esoteric theory like atomic theory becomes questionable, but all basics like gravity become confirmed.

    Will anyone ever answer the point that if scientific theories are a bit shaky, claiming that god exists must be bollocks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why? Until evidence arrives that something exists, you must say it doesn't exist? What a ludicrous position!

    Why on earth is that ludicrous, that is surely the only logical position to base your ideas on?

    Don't pretend that if i proposed that a load of crazy stuff existed you would accept this because you couldn't 'prove' I was wrong and that you would hold this view with as much credit as someone who came along and suggested something existed and had evidence for it.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm just amazed a thread with a title like this has been left unchecked by the mods, it's actually quite insulting to those who do believe in god.........i really couldn't care less what anyone else believes, but if i started a thread saying 'all atheists know they are full of shit' would that be okay? i doubt it, since when did it become okay to hurl such abuse about on the boards jim v? in this age of political correctness when you can't even tell a racist/sexist joke for fear of offending someone's feelings, it's still fine to abuse religion.........i don't want the thread closed btw cos i'm all for free speech, i'm just pointing out the obvious double standards.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm just amazed a thread with a title like this has been left unchecked by the mods, it's actually quite insulting to those who do believe in god.........i really couldn't care less what anyone else believes, but if i started a thread saying 'all atheists know they are full of shit' would that be okay? i doubt it, since when did it become okay to hurl such abuse about on the boards jim v? in this age of political correctness when you can't even tell a racist/sexist joke for fear of offending someone's feelings, it's still fine to abuse religion.........i don't want the thread closed btw cos i'm all for free speech, i'm just pointing out the obvious double standards.........
    I wouldn't worry Miguel. All this thread has shown is that klintock is full of shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no possible way to falsify or to verify God's existence, so to say that he definitely does or does not exist are both equally ignorant viewpoints.
    You answered:
    klintock wrote:
    Fair enough, Id the most you can sat is "I don't know" then weak atheism is what is left for everyone.
    That is called agnosticism. And you have just admitted to it, but nevertheless you continue to state that atheism is more logical... You are only contradicting yourself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What abuse?

    People who see things that aren't there are usually described as being insane.

    People who believe in god and religion claim that there is something "out there" which can't be seen, that is, they see things that aren't there.

    Ergo, religious people are nuts.

    You cannot do it the other way around cos there isn't any proof for the assertion, that's the whole point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That is called agnosticism. And you have just admitted to it, but nevertheless you continue to state that atheism is more logical... You are only contradicting yourself.

    Nope. i was describing someone elses views.

    I like empiricism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm just amazed a thread with a title like this has been left unchecked by the mods, it's actually quite insulting to those who do believe in god.........i really couldn't care less what anyone else believes, but if i started a thread saying 'all atheists know they are full of shit' would that be okay? i doubt it, since when did it become okay to hurl such abuse about on the boards jim v? in this age of political correctness when you can't even tell a racist/sexist joke for fear of offending someone's feelings, it's still fine to abuse religion.........i don't want the thread closed btw cos i'm all for free speech, i'm just pointing out the obvious double standards.........
    Agree 100%.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You should know by now that Christians are always fair game for abuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    People who believe in god and religion claim that there is something "out there" which can't be seen, that is, they see things that aren't there.
    What nonsense. By that logic, blind people would be deemed mad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You should know by now that Christians are always fair game for abuse.

    I doubt xtrians are mentioned at all in the thread. They are all nuts.
    What nonsense. By that logic, blind people would be deemed mad.

    Or faulty in some way...like being, for instance....blind?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You should know by now that Christians are always fair game for abuse.
    Yeah, I know, but that doesn't stop it from being abusive still. And anyhow he has not only been abusing Christians but ALL religious and believing people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Or faulty in some way...like being, for instance....blind?
    Are you faulty then, cos you can't recognise your spiritual dimension?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's not abuse to point out facts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you faulty then, cos you can't recognise your spiritual dimension?

    The way in which we would determine a fault would be to return once again to the real, physical world and devise some kind of test.

    If we do so, we of course find out, once again that I am correct and that there is "something wrong" with religious thinkers.
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