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lazy frogs..

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    :D:D

    Clueless, totally clueless.

    To expand - some people fall just outside the criteria. True, there is a hardship fund but its very limited. Plus not everyone knows about it or has the confidence to apply. Thing is Kentish, unless you've been there or worked in this field, you don't know what its like. You have a feeling of confidence and entitlement from your upbringing that a lot of people just don't have.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    i don't know if I have one - I'm illustrating your naivety
    That's a bit rich. You've demonstrated your pessimism throughout. You were therefore either really bad at your job or are deliberately not presenting your success stories.
    Sorry, but it doestake that long.
    Can but shouldn't. There are even charities that provide counselling for certain needs.
    Grants were phased out some years ago. And how is someone who left school with no real qualifications 30+ years ago going to go to the OU? Get real ffs.....Fucking clueless.
    Open University FAQs
    e.g.
    Do I have to pass an entry test?
    No. Most of our undergraduate courses are open to all because we believe that everyone should have an equal opportunity to study
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    You're having a fucking laugh aintcha? :mad:
    What's your point?
    :D:D

    Clueless, totally clueless.
    What's your point?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    To expand - some people fall just outside the criteria. True, there is a hardship fund but its very limited. Plus not everyone knows about it or has the confidence to apply. Thing is Kentish, unless you've been there or worked in this field, you don't know what its like. You have a feeling of confidence and entitlement from your upbringing that a lot of people just don't have.
    I accept that, but that's why you have your job afterall.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    No, I'm saying that if I were given the choice to work 60 and get more pay then I would choose that over an enforced hours cap. Who says long hours and "shit pay" go hand in hand? You can have better pay and uncapped hours.
    Or you can have worse pay and shit loads of hours without much of an option to do fewer.

    Guess which scenario happens more often, by a factor of a million to one.
    It's a matter of choice.
    Very often is not I'm afraid.
    Yeah, I see a lot wrong with that. I see uncontrolled greed, and I see financial inequality. Neither of which are affected in the slightest by striking French air traffic controllers.
    Do we actually know what the French air traffic controllers are striking about?

    Does the boss of Jet2? I somehow doubt it... Judging by his comments he sounds like the kind of person who thinks employees are some sort of scum who should have no rights.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Or you can have worse pay and shit loads of hours without much of an option to do fewer.

    Guess which scenario happens more often, by a factor of a million to one.
    But I haven't been given the choice. So people have been campaigning for reduced hours for people who don't want less hours but would rather have the better wage.
    Do we actually know what the French air traffic controllers are striking about?

    Does the boss of Jet2? I somehow doubt it... Judging by his comments he sounds like the kind of person who thinks employees are some sort of scum who should have no rights.
    Why do you make that assumption?

    The Jet2 statement is unwise but the point is to highlight the inconvenience to ordinary working people who would like to fly over France who have been unable to do so because the French are striking. That's all. It is in Jet2's interest, afterall, to keep its planes flying. The right to strike is all very well but if it was an essential right then maybe all workers should be allowed to do it, military and medical personnel included.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do we actually know what the French air traffic controllers are striking about?
    yea, i just found out......apparently they did run out of bog roll :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    DEANO MAC wrote:
    Do we actually know what the French air traffic controllers are striking about?
    They seem to have joined a general strike that French students started last week. Supposedly about new youth employment laws. It rather reminds me of the "sympathy strike" that BA baggage handlers performed for the Gate Gourmet workers last summer at Heathrow.

    The BA workers got sacked. I wonder what will happen to the French air traffic controllers... :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    They seem to have joined a general strike that French students started last week. Supposedly about new youth employment laws. It rather reminds me of the "sympathy strike" that BA baggage handlers performed for the Gate Gourmet workers last summer at Heathrow.

    The BA workers got sacked. I wonder what will happen to the French air traffic controllers... :chin:
    well yea,but are they that easy to replace though?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    But I haven't been given the choice. So people have been campaigning for reduced hours for people who don't want less hours but would rather have the better wage.
    They clearly are campaigning for everyone. Most folks in their right minds would not want to be made to work 56 hours plus. If you and others want that, well, why don't you campaign for it?
    Why do you make that assumption?

    The Jet2 statement is unwise but the point is to highlight the inconvenience to ordinary working people who would like to fly over France who have been unable to do so because the French are striking. That's all. It is in Jet2's interest, afterall, to keep its planes flying. The right to strike is all very well but if it was an essential right then maybe all workers should be allowed to do it, military and medical personnel included.
    The right to strike is as essential as any working right could be.

    As for Jet2, the profoundly moronic, borderline xenophobic ranting can only mean, in my opinion at least, that the boss is your typical greedy tyrant who would like to have anyone who strikes haning from lampposts. Most companies from most industries are affected by strike action sooner or later. And most of them can put up with the inconvenience without making sterotypical bigoted remarks or throwing their toys out of the pram. The man in charge of Jet2 is either a bit of a cunt, or a complete idiot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:

    Do we actually know what the French air traffic controllers are striking about?

    Part of an attempt by the unelected unions to break a democratically elected Government...

    And by the looks of it they suceeded...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    That's a bit rich. You've demonstrated your pessimism throughout. You were therefore either really bad at your job or are deliberately not presenting your success stories.

    I was actually very good at my job. I'm not going to get offered a job at one of the most well respected and longest running substance misuse services in London (post I'm starting next week) by being crap at my job.
    What I'm doing is illustrating that everyone's choices are not the same, that in fact some people's choices are extremely limited by economic and life circumstances. If you want to work with the "socially excluded" then its something you're gonna have to get your head around - you've been quite priviledged.
    Kentish wrote:
    Can but shouldn't. There are even charities that provide counselling for certain needs.

    It can, yes. It took me over 12 months to get a referral. Once you've had 12 sessions, thats yer lot, you don't get any more. And yes, there are charities, but as I've already said, you have to pay if you're working. That's not even getting into the disparity of services across boroughs.
    Kentish wrote:

    You're not taking into account the reality of people's lives. Someone working 12 hour night shifts who left school years ago is not going to feel that they can do an OU course. Get real.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jet2 and its passengers are being inconvenienced, Jet2’s boss is perfectly entitled to condemn the strikers for ruining the holidays of thousands of his customers. And lets remember a pretty big chunk of these French air traffic controllers who frequently inconvenience British tourists would be unemployed if Brits started to recognise how much of France is overrated and started visiting far better value and underrated parts of Eastern Europe. (For instance Bulgaria has amazing ski resorts, beautiful beach resorts, cheap flights and you can get eat in the poshest restaurant, order the most expensive wine on the list and still have change from a tenner).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    What's your point?

    What's your point?

    My point is that you don't have a clue. You're naive and don't know how easy you've had it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm almost certainly on ignore, but it looks very much to me like those people are where they are because they made shit choices to begin with.

    Starting to take drugs was a choice, picking an unsuitable partner was a choice, allowing yourself to get comfy on union subsidised wages without improving your skillset was a choice.

    Once you've made shit choices, it can be hard but of course not impossible to come back from it. Surely shoring up some people who make shit choices softens the blow and makes it easier for other people to make those stupid decisions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Part of an attempt by the unelected unions to break a democratically elected Government...
    I haven't heard of this. What are you referring to?

    It's not the attempt to stop a new employement law that would give bosses the powers to dispose of employees as easily as discarding a used kleenex in the trash, is it?

    Because if it is, the strikers should be supported by everyone who has to work for a living and is not a boss.

    Which I guess means 99% of people here as well.

    But as ever, it's both amusing and surreal to see so many turkeys willingly voting for Christmas.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its democracy in action.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jet2 and its passengers are being inconvenienced, Jet2’s boss is perfectly entitled to condemn the strikers for ruining the holidays of thousands of his customers.
    Do you actually think he spoke out of concern for the holidays of his customers?

    You don't see any other company bosses, even those who are affected by more regular strike action, make xenophobic, insulting and idiotic remarks about it.

    I guess they're being too soft eh, putting up with such outrageous behaviour as strike action by workers.

    Tell me Disillusioined... are you rich? Or are you, or will you expect to be your own boss in the forseeable future? Because if not, you appear to be just another turkey voting for Christmas.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I haven't heard of this. What are you referring to?

    It's not the attempt to stop a new employement law that would give bosses the powers to dispose of employees as easily as discarding a used kleenex in the trash, is it?

    Because if it is, the strikers should be supported by everyone who has to work for a living and is not a boss.

    Which I guess means 99% of people here as well.

    But as ever, it's both amusing and surreal to see so many turkeys willingly voting for Christmas.

    Or striking for Christmas as seems to be the case here.

    Why should I support something which is going to decrease employment, keep people on the dole and is an attempt to overturn a law enacted by a democratic Government by violence and intimidation?

    99% of people will still be employed after 2 years. Why? Because its actually in the bosses interests not to sack decent staff after you've spent time and money training them up for 2 years. What it means however is that they can get rid of the workshy and the incompetent easier (which obviously worries unions as if you get rid of workshy and incompetent staff half their shop stewards will find themselves unemployed).

    Of course one of the other problems with the French economy is that small firms don't dare expand - if they make a mistake when hiring someone or the market downturns they're stuck with employees or face exhorbitant costs when making them redundant. The net result is that many firms stay smaller than they could and more people remain unemployed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Its democracy in action.

    Democracy of the mob.... Whoever can cause the most violence wins...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    My point is that you don't have a clue. You're naive and don't know how easy you've had it.
    You're just taking the piss now. I'm just an average guy from an average family in an average town. Privileged compared to some, no doubt, but don't think you can gain my respect by calling me naive and expecting me to agree. I've worked hard for my career and it isn't unreasonable to expect others to do the same. For example, I met a guy in a pub the other week who'd just been released from prison (robbery). After getting more or less his entire life story, it was obvious that he'd had what you would call a shit life, in and out of prison for years. The next day I saw him in town delivering leaflets door to door. Shit job? Or livelihood?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Democracy of the mob.... Whoever can cause the most violence wins...

    I refer you to my intitial question on this thread

    For all those people who are anti-union and anti-strike - how do you think improvements in workers rights, wages and conditions come about? A gift from the pixies? A gift from benevolent bosses? or something else?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    You're just taking the piss now. I'm just an average guy from an average family in an average town. Privileged compared to some, no doubt, but don't think you can gain my respect by calling me naive and expecting me to agree. I've worked hard for my career and it isn't unreasonable to expect others to do the same. For example, I met a guy in a pub the other week who'd just been released from prison (robbery). After getting more or less his entire life story, it was obvious that he'd had what you would call a shit life, in and out of prison for years. The next day I saw him in town delivering leaflets door to door. Shit job? Or livelihood?

    I don't know why you think being called naive and priviledged is such an insult. Its not, its an observation, born out by your posts on this thread.

    BTW, try surviving in London delivering leaflets door to door. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Or striking for Christmas as seems to be the case here.

    Why should I support something which is going to decrease employment, keep people on the dole and is an attempt to overturn a law enacted by a democratic Government by violence and intimidation?

    99% of people will still be employed after 2 years. Why? Because its actually in the bosses interests not to sack decent staff after you've spent time and money training them up for 2 years. What it means however is that they can get rid of the workshy and the incompetent easier (which obviously worries unions as if you get rid of workshy and incompetent staff half their shop stewards will find themselves unemployed).

    Of course one of the other problems with the French economy is that small firms don't dare expand - if they make a mistake when hiring someone or the market downturns they're stuck with employees or face exhorbitant costs when making them redundant. The net result is that many firms stay smaller than they could and more people remain unemployed.
    Exhorbitant costs... yeah sure.

    Years ago they introduced a similar law in Spain. Don't know the particulars in France but in Spain they made it extremely easy for employees to be sacked when on 6-month contracts, but on the "plus" side the employer could only keep you on 6-month contracts for 3 years maximum, after which he was obliged to offer you are more secure indefinite contract.

    Guess what happened when the 3 years came up.

    Face it: so long as the employee meets a minimum standard countless employers don't care much for better or more loyal employees if they can hire cheaper ones instead. Hundreds of thousands of youths in Spain spent years floating from dead end job to dead end job with shite conditions, pay and benefits as time after time their bosses 'let them go' after 3 years.

    Can't blame the French or anyone else for trying to avoid being sucked into a similar situation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    99% of people will still be employed after 2 years. Why? Because its actually in the bosses interests not to sack decent staff after you've spent time and money training them up for 2 years. What it means however is that they can get rid of the workshy and the incompetent easier (which obviously worries unions as if you get rid of workshy and incompetent staff half their shop stewards will find themselves unemployed).

    :yes:

    The best job security is doing a good job and being pleasant etc. The only people I can see bothering about such a situation are those who are crap workers.
    Of course one of the other problems with the French economy is that small firms don't dare expand - if they make a mistake when hiring someone or the market downturns they're stuck with employees or face exhorbitant costs when making them redundant. The net result is that many firms stay smaller than they could and more people remain unemployed.

    Or just go blackmarket entirely.
    For all those people who are anti-union and anti-strike - how do you think improvements in workers rights, wages and conditions come about? A gift from the pixies? A gift from benevolent bosses? or something else?

    All worker improvements come from the capitalists side, then unions used violence to make them widespread rather than wait for the market to sort it all out naturally.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Do you actually think he spoke out of concern for the holidays of his customers?

    You don't see any other company bosses, even those who are affected by more regular strike action, make xenophobic, insulting and idiotic remarks about it.

    Knowing a few air stewards and stewardesses at Jet2 through my step cousin that works there from what I’ve heard about the guy that runs Jet2 he’s very hands-on, gives generous benefits to loyal staff and is generally an all round good bloke but a pretty down to earth plain speaking northerner that’s done well for himself. The sort of person probably like Alan Sugar that has done well through hard work and rightly or wrongly expects the same from everybody else. To some extent, it’s through concern for customers no doubt as he will want to run a successful business and to some extent through being ruthless – but I don’t really think it’s xenophobia.
    Aladdin wrote:
    Tell me Disillusioined... are you rich? Or are you, or will you expect to be your own boss in the forseeable future? Because if not, you appear to be just another turkey voting for Christmas.

    I am not rich and nor is my family. I just believe that strikes in the long run don't help anybody, rich or poor – look at British Leyland, in the long run who benefited from years of constant strikes?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I don't know why you think being called naive and priviledged is such an insult. Its not, its an observation, born out by your posts on this thread.
    No, it's your usual cheap shot at someone who doesn't share your perspective. You also make the assumption that everyone wants a professional career.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its basically the same battle that went on here in the 80's under Thatcher. The battle against casualisation, deregulation, dismantling of the welfare state and the destruction of the public sector.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    No, it's your usual cheap shot at someone who doesn't share your perspective.

    That's coming from you, not me. The fact is that going by your comments on this thread, you think that everyone has the same choices as you had. That is patently bullshit.
    Kentish wrote:
    You also make the assumption that everyone wants a professional career.

    How did you reach that conclusion? Bizarre. :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    That's coming from you, not me. The fact is that going by your comments on this thread, you think that everyone has the same choices as you had. That is patently bullshit.
    I've never said or implied that, but why reality get in the way of a good spleen venting, eh?
    How did you reach that conclusion? Bizarre. :confused:
    All three examples you gave, funnily enough.
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