If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
That last line was exactly what I was about to post in response, scarlett. :thumb:
Even if you don't think it's political, I think it has far less to do with sex.
I don't agree. Let's put it to a vote!
just thought id post again
how could you prove otherwise? the is up to the prosecution to provide proof of guilt snd if they have no case it would have to be chucked out surely?
Firstly, does anybody remember the statistics by Amnesty about how a lot of men believe that if a woman is raped then it is partly her fault?
Secondly... Just because a woman flirts with a man, wears a low cut top or likes a beer does not give him any excuse to rape her. No is no, no matter how much they tease, no matter whatever they say at the end of the day if she says she doesn't want sex then she should under no circumstances should be forced in to it...
Finally, rape does happen to men, it must be a terrible ordeal for them, but it mostly happens to women. Arguing the "what about us poor oppressed men" issue every time somebody suggests that maybe women get a tough deal sometimes get a bit tiresome... It is like when you talk about (for example) racism in America in the 80's... Sure, some black people might have been racist against white people... But it was mainly afro-carrebeans who got shit...
If that makes sense.
Makes sence but theres a difference between liking a beer and getting totaly wasted, Theres certainly no excuse for raping anyone but shouldnt forget its your resposiblity to make sure your capable of looking after yourself.
Not really sure how a man could be raped by a woman, my mates girlfriend tried to forcefully have sex with me, told her very clearly i wasnt interested but didnt stop her trying, however i could just push her away she was never going to over power me. it was quite unpleasent but nothing compared to how it must be the other way round.
You're not paying attention to the point.
take the case in Aberystwyth. Woman gets drunk at party, she is assigned a security guard- a complete stranger- to take her home. He does this, except they end up having sex in the corridor, half in and half out of her bedroom. She says she passed out, and only briefly woke up knowing "something" was going on. She only found out she had been penetrated some 48 hours later, when the security guard is invited by police.
Given all this information, the case was thrown out because the woman cannot remember expressly saying no. Forget her testimony that she'd passed out, forget her testimony that if she'd wanted sex she'd have moved the extra two feet to her bed, forget the fact that the security guard was sober, a stranger, and in a position of authority. She "might" have said yes and not remembered, therefore the case was chucked out.
Does that sound like the correct decision? Because she couldn't remember expressly stating no, she was assumed to have said yes. Remember, folks, this was a woman who passed out and was not exactly in a position to participate fully in sexual intercourse, but because she didn't say no she wasn't raped.
The not reaching the bed is a mute point as lots of people choose to go at it in places despite beds been present, though i concerned about the point you make Kermit about it been taken as, if she couldnt remember saying no it must have been a yes. That is disturbing.
But i must ask this, did the guard in question give testimony in his defence and say whether she said yes or no? What if she did say yes, but was drunk, if she said yes she said yes, although a gentleman should act as such and refrain from such actions, it rarely is the case they turn down the offer of sex if the offer is made that is, which is the argument, was there permission even if given while drunk? Am i right?
this is the case i'm thinking of, and no matter how dispicable it is, i just cant imagine a case proceeding other than
to lady
'so from your perspective what happened?' 'i dont remember'
to security guard
'despite being drunk she came onto me/consented'
theres no other way things can go, to my knowledge theres no witnesses or anything either, unless im mistaken
i know plenty of people who have landed up in bed with someone they wouldnt of slept with sober, but if they were drunk they probably would again, this applies to men and women i know, and if they cant remember too well what happened they just assume they got too drunk, and that it was generally crap, and make sure they dont get that wasted again, let alone pursueing a claim of rape or indecent assualt
I agree wholeheartedly, and applaud you for being so intelligent and articulate (when this subject turns me into a flaming ball of rage).
Here's the scenario, man and a woman, both drunk, kiss each other...they go back to her/his place...she remembers saying yes and they have sex. She wakes up the next day, totally regrets what she did, wouldn't go near the fella with a barge pole if sober. Was she raped? Simple yes or no answer.
My question is what if the girl does say yes to sex, but is very drunk and doesnt remember saying yes the next morning. That was what i was asking Kermit, because i wanted to clarify the scenario in his real life example.
But legally speaking what would happen. As far as the guy knows they were both drunk and having sex, like is the norm these days for weekends of binge drinkers. He wasnt as drunk but still couldnt tell she was beyond reasonable cognative thought. it is an extreme and rare example i know. i most cases women know they have been raped and did not give consent. But in the rare occasions women can not remember what happened, as a result of drink but it could be drugs too. How should the law work? it is in this sort of situation i find what is written in law mirky. I cant think of a way to resolve it. Th man in question will not think he did anything wrong as he had consent, but the woman has had sex with out been fully aware of herself or situation, even if she appeared to be at the time.
I am sorry if i am drawing away from the more important debating point by the way, i will try not to after this post.
ETA:Where did I say I think they'll claim they were raped afterwards...eh?
What about this comment though?
Where do you draw the line between an informed and non-informed decision?
I could care less about the rammifications of an action and who says what after the sex. I want to know what constitutes rape in these situations!