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Bred for a strong back and a weak mind?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
just been reading a thread started by diesel. at first i thought he was introducing an intelligent debate, but it turned out to be an extremely misinformed, misguided, narrowminded series of random comments on a subject upon which he has a weak grasp, at best.
i really wanted to reply to some of his comments and clear up some of the wrongs.
however, since it's been closed i won't bother............
which leads me onto the reason the topic was closed.
an adminstrator closed it because she felt a statement that americans bred black slaves for a strong back and a weak mind, was racist.
Now, i am absolutely not racist, you'll just have to take my word on that. I do not know what diesel's intentions were behind that remark.
However, i do believe that if that comment is solely a statement of supposed fact, then it is in fact fair.
White America DID breed black slaves. It is a widely accepted fact that they bred them for their strong physical capabilities. It is also one of the terrible human rights violations in America's history. However it is true.
Michael Jordan himself gave this as an explaination for why black athletes dominate professional sports such as basketball. He took it as fact, he believed that it was a terrible wrong in history, but that you could trace back the strong physical characteristics present among many black athletes of the modern day, to the period when BLACK SLAVES WERE CHOSEN FOR THEIR BEST PHYSICAL QUALITIES, AND FORCE-BRED IN ORDER TO PRODUCE MORE FAVOURABLE OFFSPRING FOR THE SLAVE TRADE.
It is an awful thing to happen or to think about, but i feel we should have a discussion on this subject and perhaps enlighten our knowledge of this, rather than simply dismissing comments about it as racist.
If they are intended in a derogatory way, then they are racist and offensive. However, if they are simply pointing out events in history, than this cannot be wrong.
It is surely a good thing to talk about and discuss the racist/ other wrongdoings in our history and to LEARN from them, rather than taking the attitude that "you can't talk about that, it's racist".
follow me??
[This message has been edited by Pacman (edited 04-08-2001).]
i really wanted to reply to some of his comments and clear up some of the wrongs.
however, since it's been closed i won't bother............
which leads me onto the reason the topic was closed.
an adminstrator closed it because she felt a statement that americans bred black slaves for a strong back and a weak mind, was racist.
Now, i am absolutely not racist, you'll just have to take my word on that. I do not know what diesel's intentions were behind that remark.
However, i do believe that if that comment is solely a statement of supposed fact, then it is in fact fair.
White America DID breed black slaves. It is a widely accepted fact that they bred them for their strong physical capabilities. It is also one of the terrible human rights violations in America's history. However it is true.
Michael Jordan himself gave this as an explaination for why black athletes dominate professional sports such as basketball. He took it as fact, he believed that it was a terrible wrong in history, but that you could trace back the strong physical characteristics present among many black athletes of the modern day, to the period when BLACK SLAVES WERE CHOSEN FOR THEIR BEST PHYSICAL QUALITIES, AND FORCE-BRED IN ORDER TO PRODUCE MORE FAVOURABLE OFFSPRING FOR THE SLAVE TRADE.
It is an awful thing to happen or to think about, but i feel we should have a discussion on this subject and perhaps enlighten our knowledge of this, rather than simply dismissing comments about it as racist.
If they are intended in a derogatory way, then they are racist and offensive. However, if they are simply pointing out events in history, than this cannot be wrong.
It is surely a good thing to talk about and discuss the racist/ other wrongdoings in our history and to LEARN from them, rather than taking the attitude that "you can't talk about that, it's racist".
follow me??
[This message has been edited by Pacman (edited 04-08-2001).]
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by using it in an argument as he did, diesel implied (whether intentionally or not) that black americans today are strong but stupid, because they were bred that way. now, that really IS racist.
i know it may seem a bit harsh, but the problem is how to express your opinion without risk of causing offence, or leading others to misconstrue your argument. by using such a fact in the way he did, diesel didnt manage to, so the topic was closed.
i think. but you'd better ask one of the admins, coz obviously they'll know why they did it.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum
yes, it's no coincidence that Marion Jones, Maurice Green, Michael Johnson etc are black, as sport has come so competitive that every little bit means something - and the blacks can go that little bit further, i'll explain why in a minute
also it's no coincidence that the top swimmers are white - hickman, thorpe (he's more white than black), popov etc
blacks have stronger tendons joining the muscles to the bones, they also have more dense bones. therefore, the higher density makes it harder to "float" in the water and the bouyancy has a negative effect, so it is better to be white when swimming (although there are some very good black swimmers i've come across at jnr levels)
due to the stronger tendons, blacks can work their muscles harder, they won't tear as easily and the tendons can withold more pressure and tension. therefore, for explosive events such as sprinting, shot put (who's marion jones married to? J.J hunter? anyway - he's very good, and also black) etc the blacks can train harder and produce stronger contractions in their fast twitch muscle fibres
if you then ask why kenyans etc dominate the long distance events, that's not really due to biological reasons. when it comes to slow twitch fibres, it makes no difference if you're black or white - as having stronger tendons will not mean you can run longer for faster, it's completely different mechanics and systems being used. it's mainly social elements - the fact the kenyans would rather run than drive, they're always at altitude, they have less distractions from training (TV, games etc) and so get into it at an early age. the stories of them running to school are actually true - moses kipkita used to run 4 miles to school...then come home for lunch, go back, then come home late at night. that's 16 miles running a day!!!
so it's true that blacks can be stronger than whites and can be pushed further, it's a biological fact and some have even suggested having a "white olympics" in some events because it is actually unfair as sport gets more and more advanced for the whites, they simply can't keep up. however this would be seen as a racial divide and the world isn't ready for such a thing. they also considered a "drug" olympics, because it's getting to the stage at which there's always doubt over those that break records
florence griffith joyner (flo-jo) is supposedly the fastest women in the world, ever. marion jones can't come close to her records, that's pretty scary.
ˆMấ§ŧế®° <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.contrabandent.com/pez/games/poke/005.gif"> ¤ĐєvĩŁĩ§Ħ¤™
As for athletics, most of what MD refers to isn't that africans are genetically different but more about different circumstances. How many kids from the 'western' world need to run four miles to school? How many live at altitude, how many have access to TVs, Playstation etc which provide that distraction, how many blacks have access to the swimming pools? Or the coaching systems? - Australias progress have prove the benefits of providing these facilities
Many of the sporting differences are because it is a way for 'third' world citizens to 'better' themselves. In order to get the money etc, they have to become world beaters whereas many in the western world already have what these althletes aspire to.
Look at the US, most of the best boxers, basketball players etc are from the 'ghettos', residents of these areas know that the best way out is through sport, that their best chance of college is through a sport scholarship, so they have the drive to achieve these high goals whilst the 'whites', who reside mainly in the suburbs, will better be able to afford to send their kids to college themselves.
So, whilst genetic differnces may account for a certain element, you should also look at the social aspects too.
ok, so i'm drifting off track here a little, but nevermind. the point about blacks in sport is true, its obvious, and i have heard the theory about stronger muscles, denser bones before, as well as the idea about hwo people are socially bought up.
to be honest i dotn knwo why the thread was closed and tehn deleted, i havnt been here for a while, maybe someone woudl like to fill me in? in my opinion the comment wasnt racist as such, but because it was negative and based on ethnic origin, its seen as racist. i know that doesnt make sence at face value but i think people will know and understand what i mean by it.
Disagree with them or point out any contrary facts and they brand you as racist....Its a well known trick used by countless groups throughout the centuries.
Edited to actually get to the point <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/smile.gif">
I know Diesel from another board and he is a well educated, intelligent man..He doesnt seem to be a racist to me. I personally think the Mods stepped over the line on this one, but of course it is their site so they dictate the rules.
Im afraid what he said was true...They didnt ship in the hundreds of thousands of slaves to employ as lawyers, architects, teachers etc but as manual labour..Strength = Productivity...Of course the slave owners wanted weak minded slaves or else they would have had a lot of slave rebellions..Strong back, weak mind was exactly what the slave owners 'bred' the slaves for...And lets face it, they did breed them..It wasnt a nice period of American history but it happened and talking about it today cannot be called racism by sensible people.
Its almost as dispicable as those people that think talking about the holocaust is a deathly sin....ask how many people were murdered by Stalin and you have no problem, ask how many black slaves were killed by their owners, no problem. Ask how many died in the recent genocide in the Balkans, no problem......but heaven forbid, you ask how many Jews died at the handsof Hiter...Youre branded a horrific racist, anti-semite and hater...You can even be jailed for discussing the issue in some parts of Europe..
No area of history should be excluded from discussion and analysis...I think we all know the quote about those who dont remember history.
"An Englishman's never so natural as when he's holding his tongue." --Henry James
[This message has been edited by Balddog (edited 05-08-2001).]
well surely we can never express our own views and have sensible discussion WITHOUT offending somebody? it doesn't have to be intentional, but it will always happen. because we are all iondividuals, with our own views and beliefs.
just because somebody was insulted does not make you wrong or the agressor.
there ARE differences between races, not differences to make any race any less than equal in terms of "value" (dont think thats the right word but i cant think of it), but differences all the same. i heard that chinese had a better than average grasp of spatial issues. i cant think of any more, and i dont have the scientific reasons why.... but there ARE subtle differences in places.
where the remark would cause offence, is for it to be applied to black people now, insinuating they are stupid. this wouldnt be tolerated round here... maybe the mods were seeking to avert this before it happened?? dunno.
Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.
Britian had slavery for most of it's history, then it was decread that slavery was wrong (don't know the date, 1700's). Not to start a pissing match but to clarify on history.
as for offending people with you opinions, why is that such a bad thing. If I want to be a biggot than I have the right to spuw whatever nonsense I wish.
The fact that people of different races have different abilities only makes us stronger as a hole. As a rule (not always true) Blacks can handle more physical abuse (why don't we have more black pilots and astronauts), whites are better at controlling others (poloticians, Management, etc), Asians are better at math and science (electronics), I can't think of hispaincs and Native Americans right now (it would only come out to racist for most on this site).
These statistics don't really mean much, because there is always someone that will break these standards.
The only reason this post refers to slavery as American History is becuase the original post referred to US prisons, US blacks and was posted by an american.
I don't think that any of us underestimates that severity of the crimes each of our countries committed and I think we are all aware of the fact that this crime is still being committed around the world.
We weren't suggesting that this was one nation's crime.
i remember hearing about a legal case a few years back. 'twas in britain.
involved a racist, and someone else who had done something (not employed the person or whatever) partly because they knew that person would be racist towards them.....
whatever the case was, it went to court, and the outcome was along the lines of the person has the right to be racist, just as they have the right to believe in whatever religion they chose, and therefore we can not descriminate against anyone because of their racism, EVEN IF the act of "not descriminating" against them will result in them being given the oppiortunity to discruiminate against / make life uncomfortable for others (in this case i think it was the ptoential fellow employees)..........
um, if anyone can remember what that case was (it was all over the news) the please help me fill the gaps.
it may have been someone who had a mixed workforce and didn't employt a certain racist person who then sued.......
all I saw was that you were saying the british court backed up my statement that anyone and everyone has a right to there own opinions.
Is there something wrong with that then?
Are bigots not allowed an opinion?
Bred for a strong back;
Indoctrinated for a weak mind.
they took your customs and made them their own they later elaborated on them and alledgedly made them better.
not sure what it was
i tend to write what random thoughts i have at the time.
um it was along the lines of how we all have the right to out own opinions, even if that involves prejudice towards others. and we can not in fact ....... oh i give up.
The reason for starting the topic is this; I am the descendant of a proud old Southern family from Louisiana...we were slave holders and owned about 600 by the end of the Civil War...there is much history to discuss on this subject and it was my intent to broach it from that prespective because much of the social disorder in US today traces itself back to our past acts and actions...or lack thereof.
Anyway, I'll be back later as time allows.
Diesel
88888888
anyway, this subject is always gonna have mixed opinions, as is almost EVERY other subject in the world, whether it be religion, music, guns, drugs, etc. i think people should be perfectly allowed to have their own opinions, like someone on here said once "as long as the freedom of speech allows it" (i think?)
all im saying is that we should all be allowed to have and voice our own opinions, and if anyone is offended by what we say etc, well then thats just their problem.
story of my life, huh?
Many blacks saved and bought their freedom and became slaveholders themselves...and fought with the coragious defendars of the South against the Northern Agression! Some celebrate the sharing of those memories with us...some ran to the North and are all the worse for the welfare life that has been bestowed upon them.
For those who argue eughenics...and I am one...it does appear that the appaling practice of 'keeping and breeding slaves' has indeed had a detrimental effect upon the survivors in US...it is not an environmental thing as some suggest but rather a clear case of deliberate breeding as is done with livestock, pets, birds, etc. This is not to say that all US blacks are either stupid or have really low IQ's...but an inordinate number do fall into those categories and for those who have read "The Geography of Intellect" by Posoney there is much worth discussing and examining for we, US, bear the fruits of our handywork.
Diesel
88888888
On balance, I suspect that the latter has a much greater influence than the former. Any genetic 'decline' is probably almost nil these days, nearly 150 years after manumission. The great socio-economic differences still exist and doubtless have an effect.