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Gibralter
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
IS it worth the effort ? Should we just give it to the Spanish ?
I think we should keep it, no real reason, just like the idea of pissing off the Spanish <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
I think we should keep it, no real reason, just like the idea of pissing off the Spanish <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
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The Spanish moaning about land rights is just laughable..When they return their colonies in north africa and the parts of portugal theyve stolen then they STILL wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
Fuck historical land rights..Its the people that count. Something like 98% of those living in Gibralter want to remain British.
The fact that Blair is about to abandon them makes me sick to my stomach.
I despise that man more with every day.
And I'm not so sure that this can be solely placed at Blairs door either, its an EU pushed thing. I just wish he'd got enough balls to tell them all to Fuck Off. I know Maggie would have...
I believe Gibraltar should be returned to Spain.
The Spanish do not want to kick Gibraltarians out; nor they want them to become Spanish. All they are asking is that the territory is returned to Spain and the Spanish flag flies on the Rock. Why? Because at present it fucking unnatural and deeply offensive. How would people feel like in here if there was a piece of land in the middle of England- or by the coast- fenced off from the rest of the country and with a foreign flag flying you their faces? To hold on to it because of a 300-hundred year old treaty obtained by force is just incredible, stupid and more in tune with the Middle Ages than with the 21st century.
And what of the Gibraltarians? Well if they love Britain so much I can't see what the problem is about exchanging their Gibraltar passports for UK ones. And please don't tell me about how important it is for them to live in 'home' soil. There are about 500,000 British citizens living happily in Spain and none of them seem to think their nationality is being challenged by that.
So really, all it would (or should) change would be the colour of the flag flying on the mast. No one would have to leave or change nationality. Is it really asking that much?
To be fair, I agree Spain does not have the right to claim it until it returns Ceuta and Melilla to Morocco- it's exactly the same situation. And I understand the Spanish haven't been the best of neighbours to Gibraltarians- there is a lot of bad blood. It would take some time for the two communities to blend in. But I believe it would happen. Most Gibraltarians speak better Spanish than English! There is more in common that you'd think.
Fucking unnatural and offensive? How about the parts of Africa and portugal that the Spanish still hold onto? How offensive do you think it is to them that the Spanish flag flies there?
Besides...WHO FUCKING CARES WHAT THE SPANISH THINK...Its the people who live on the godamn rock that count. Its THEIR choice not the fuckin spaniards. Historical, territorial boundaries should mean shit in this day and age, its the people who matter, not the damn historical ties.
By the same rule Israelis living in illegal settlements in occupied Palestine should have more right to the land than its rightful owners... <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
And as I mentioned earlier, Spain is as guilty as everyone about occupying land that isn't theirs, and should not make claim of Gibraltar until it returns Ceuta and Melilla.
If the Spanish government is really trying to change people's nationalities that's wrong. I don't see how that could be done though. A British citizen can set up residence anywhere they like, and there is no need to change nationality.
At the bottom of all lies the bigger problem. The British Empire (like the Spanish Empire in the 16th Century) is something to be profoundly ashamed of. Yet many people regard it as the brightest time in British history. "We owed a third of the world, fucked up the locals good, but who cares eh. It was our right and Rule Britannia!!". A number of people down there represents all this to an extreme... The worst type of patriotism, xenophobia and small mindness.
Completely different situations. Firstly, no Spaniards have ever been forced off the rock to make way for the Brits. Secondly, theres a big difference between 400 years and 50. Thirdly, there are no Spanish refugees waiting to return to their former land.
How can they possibly have more of a right to it than the people that live there? Because its attached to the bottom of their country? Because it was theirs 400 years ago? Calais was ours 700 years ago, do we have a right to that?
The British empire..Screw the British empire, its got nothing to do with this. Yes it was taken during the empire days but Spain has an equally bad history of empire and crushed kingdoms within Spain.
PS, why should I be ashamed of the British empire?
I honestly wouldn't give a shit.
And I'm not ashamed of our Empire. In that time, the world was a lot smaller, and things that we would regard as unacceptable now, weren't then. History is history - lets not shut the stable door now - the horse has bolted.
We call it Wales <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
LOLOLOLOLOL! <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
The Spanish...being Spaniards were quite crap at beating us, at anything. Therefore, when they have the guts and the ability to
take Gibraltar from us using their fighting ability, they can have it. Not before. Gaining territory by simply handing over pieces of paper is an insult to the people who died to get the land in the first place.
Same with the Falklands. We beat the argis, and I'll be damned if we simply give them up on the dimplomacy table.
Territory still under our control remains so because the country it originally belonged to is too scared to take us on.
If you can argue with this, than please do so.
Oh...I am well aware of Hong Kong, but the Chinese being a lot more powerful than us were welcome to it.
Looks like someone's a firm believer in social Darwinism.
There is no real point to this post, other than wanting to get my 250th in tonight. I'm now officially insane, but I'm sure you all knew that already <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
More like some countries have moved forward and renounce to the use of violence to achieve their goals. The Greek deeply resent the Elgin Marbles remaining in Britain, but they will not go to war over it because they have a sense of proportion about it. The same goes for Spain and Gibraltar.
ROFLMAO..You cant honestly believe that can you?