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Defence Spending : China and the US

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    With advanced imaging satellites of today, the Chinese wouldn't need to rely on aerial reconnaisance to pinpoint carrier fleets. They'd be ducks in a pond waiting to be torpedoed.

    And you think the Americans will just let the Chinese satellites stay there?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats another matter and one with its own dynamics behind it. Who's to say that in the space race underway the Chinese would let the US satellites stay? More to the point given the enormous foreign flotation of the US economy which is nothing but a sea of debt, largely owned by the Chinese actually, the US may not be in any financial position to keep its war machine going if the debtors call for repayment.

    The vulnerabilities of the decades to come exist on numerous interconnected levels. Your military presumptions wont amount to a hill of beans if any of the dominos start to fall.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But bear in mind any attempt by the Chinese to wreck the US economy will also wreck their own. And if we're talking about so far into the future that the Chinese have overtaken the US in the space race a lot of our other presumptions are also likely to be out of date (eg the technology on planes may be so far advanced that they can take off and return from US bases without needing to refuel)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But bear in mind any attempt by the Chinese to wreck the US economy will also wreck their own

    Remind me, which population is used to doing with fuck all again?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Remind me, which population is used to doing with fuck all again?

    Well its no longer the Chinese...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Far more Chinese have no stake in the capitalistic enclaves of the few major investment centres. Compared to the US which has lived in smug comfort until the sell out began about 10-15 year ago.

    As for your assertion that the CHinese economy would suffer, that I would argue is only to the degree that Europe failed to step up and fill the investment gap with the Euro, which is by far a more stable and trusted currency year upon year.

    Given the ever closer ties between the EU and China/ASEAN as a whole, it is likely the shift will occur within the foreseable future as overt US militarism places the US dollar on ever more central bank lists as a bad credit risk.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gary Blecher was saying some interesting stuff until he said Rommel was a great general, Rommel, who in his time lost repeatedly to the British General, Good old Monty!

    Anyway, in a China vs. America scenario, regardless of how it comes about, the first strike will give the ultimate advantage and probably grant victory. If America launches a pre-emptive first strike they could oblitarate all of China's satallites blinding them to American positions int he Pacific. They could use there own satallites to identify China's missile positions and strike at them first, they do not evn have to have their locations exact, they only need to be with in a mile radius then they could Carpet Bomb the whole area and most likely hit them all. With America's equally vast missile capabilities they could destroy the Chinese Airforce on the ground and as for a 12 million strong standing army...well...what good is a 12 million strong army if they are all killed in the first wave of bombings?

    If America were to strike first, they win. If China saw it coming and struck first, they win.

    Economically...the world is shifting towards China...for now...Will America allow the trend to go on though, i doubt it. What they will do to stop it though, i can only speculate.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    subject13 wrote:
    Gary Blecher was saying some interesting stuff until he said Rommel was a great general, Rommel, who in his time lost repeatedly to the British General, Good old Monty!
    Rommel was a fucking ace General. If only Hitler had listened to Rommel, hem ight have won. Hitler was a twonk though.
    subject13 wrote:
    Anyway, in a China vs. America scenario, regardless of how it comes about, the first strike will give the ultimate advantage and probably grant victory. If America launches a pre-emptive first strike they could oblitarate all of China's satallites blinding them to American positions int he Pacific. They could use there own satallites to identify China's missile positions and strike at them first, they do not evn have to have their locations exact, they only need to be with in a mile radius then they could Carpet Bomb the whole area and most likely hit them all. With America's equally vast missile capabilities they could destroy the Chinese Airforce on the ground and as for a 12 million strong standing army...well...what good is a 12 million strong army if they are all killed in the first wave of bombings?
    Bunkers for the men and tanks. China has many. Also alot of it's nuke Silo's are hidden in reinforced mountains. China's main weakness is that it cannot Hit America, it is a defensive Military at the moment. Their main advantage is that they can stop exporting to the US, causing majour problems. Hence, why a war is unlikley to take place.
    subject13 wrote:
    If America were to strike first, they win. If China saw it coming and struck first, they win.
    Nah, it'd end in Stalemate. China has staying power, the US does too. It'd be like Korea, unresolved. However, the US could crush North Korea in seconds today. They should, that'd actually be of benefit, unlike Iraq.
    subject13 wrote:
    Economically...the world is shifting towards China...for now...Will America allow the trend to go on though, i doubt it. What they will do to stop it though, i can only speculate.
    The US has no option. It wants stuff cheap, it has to be produced somewhere with little or no regulation over working, or somewhere where life is cheap. Hence, China, where yes, they are paid naff all a day, but you CAN afford to live off it, because STUFF is just cheap there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rommel was a good General, but he wasnt spectacular. Definately he was better then any of the American Generals. Way better then Patton, in fact Patton is so over-rated by historians, he was given command of a fake, non-existant army because he was all hype.

    As for listening to Rommel, well, he lost in North Africa despite having the single most effective and well trained force Germany had prepared in the Afrika Corp. He built the German defences, that is true, BUT he didnt expect the Allied invasion to come when it did, or where it did and went home for the weekend and missed out on most of it.

    He could have helped rebuilding Germany post-war, but so long as he was fighting the British, he was never going to be a winner.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    subject13 wrote:
    Rommel was a good General, but he wasnt spectacular. Definately he was better then any of the American Generals. Way better then Patton, in fact Patton is so over-rated by historians, he was given command of a fake, non-existant army because he was all hype.
    Patton was good, he was just a complete cocking bastard! I mean, he didn't beleive shellshock was real ffs, twat.
    subject13 wrote:
    As for listening to Rommel, well, he lost in North Africa despite having the single most effective and well trained force Germany had prepared in the Afrika Corp. He built the German defences, that is true, BUT he didnt expect the Allied invasion to come when it did, or where it did and went home for the weekend and missed out on most of it.
    Aye, but Rommel said the invasion would be at Normandy, he was right. As for the Afrika Corp... well... there was a resource shortage an all, and he was using alot of stolen tanks because of this. The thing is, at end of the day, Germany way overstretched itself.
    subject13 wrote:
    He could have helped rebuilding Germany post-war, but so long as he was fighting the British, he was never going to be a winner.
    Aye, as above. Germany took on the world too soon. But if they didn't, Stalin would have had an army by the time they did. Tad of a no-win situation. He could have easily taken if Europe alone, but he was too greedy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Germany could have beaten the USSR and kept Europe! The flaw was when Hitler ordered them to take Stalingrad when they had a defenseless Moscow only 10 miles away, with a defenseless Stalin still residing there!

    Of course the point is mute as Japan attacked america bringing them into the war.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    "Defenseless Moscow" is a lie.

    It was more heavily defended than Stalingrad. Because Stalin had his ass covered. Also, they wanted to go through Stalingrad to Moscow, to take ALL the land. The flaw was the Russian Winter, and that by this time, the Soviets had some good Tech coming into proper action, the T-34, Katyusha, and the Il-2 was claiming huge kills.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Russian weapons were months off and so was the Winter. Stalin's generals and leadership abandoned Moscow because they new it would fall.

    To take Stalingrad was a decision made by Hitler despite EVERY single one of his generals telling him to avoid it and go around it, take Moscow which would fall easily, secure the oil feilds in the Caucuses and then once Russia was taken swing south and meet up with the Afrika on their victory. It failed because Hitler was obsessed with Stalingrad.
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