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Budget 2002
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
It seems to have passed by with barely a mention in the Politics forum. What's wrong with it? There must be something...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/budget2002/0,11219,602494,00.html
Either he's spot on, and we're all gonna get want we want from the government this year, or it was so predictable that we all lost interest.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/budget2002/0,11219,602494,00.html
Either he's spot on, and we're all gonna get want we want from the government this year, or it was so predictable that we all lost interest.
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Comments
Personally I have no problem with the budget..Its not done me any harm..
Unfortunately its going to put a lot of people out of work.
My dad runs a nursing home company which employs about 1000 people across the country, the majority being nurses and care assistants. The 1% NI increase is going to cost the company an extra few hundred thousand pounds every year. Unfortunately they cant afford that and they will have to let people go.
Sad that people will lose their jobs <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
What do you expect from politicians?
<STRONG>
Ironic really that is we are REALLY going to help the NHS this is an area which needs the investment. The lack of rehab and nursing beds is killing the Hospitals.
Unfortunately we seem too focussed on A&E waits to realise that they are a symptom rather that the cause. if we could get people out to primary care beds (like nursing homes) then we could get people in the other end.
Simple process design really...
And since the NHS is in desperate need of nurses and HCAs I'm sure those forced out will have no problem getting another nursing job.
Besides, surely the health of the NHS is our number one priority at the moment.
I thought overall the right targets were hit and the money is finally being sent to where it is needed. Sure, the system needs looking at, but at the end of the day there is no subsitute for cold hard cash.
Raising prices? Ok so nursing homes raise prices which means the social services have to pay more, which means the government pays more which means they are still short of cash.
Or the private patients...If they get charged more then less of them well come to nursing homes but instead go to the NHS..Which again leads to more money from the govt.
Theres a reason the nurses are working for private companies rather than the NHS mate. <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Im sure MOK knows more about the relationship between nursing/care homes and the NHS.
I can see the problem tha Baldy's old man has, becuase it is duplicated in so many other area. this especially affects areas like East Kent (and Bournmouth and Eastbourne!) which have high concentrations of elderly people (and we all know how often the elderly need healthcare).
Nurses have left the NHS for numerous reasons but I think you'll find that they are just as frustrated by the Private Sector, esp if they are in an area where people call for efficiency drives all the time.
We need to accept that the epidemological changes in the UK population will mean that we need more nursing homes, and if we are trul;y to solve the probelms of the NHS then this is an area which needs addressing fast. As i said A&E departments are clogged now, because of the lack of nursing homes. Do we really want to make that situation worse?
As for the Budget, what really staggers me is that people seem to agree that the NHS has been underfunded for genrations and that this needs to be rectified. As my other thread mentioned, the Wanless report (while flawed) points to a £200bn shortfall in the past 20 years.
Yet at the same time, people expect tax cuts, or at least not to have to pay for this extra funding (if the reactions today are to be believed). I guess this is partly thanks to the Thatcher Govt who somehow managed to convince people that they could have good services as well as tax breaks even if the evidence we see now proves this to have been a lie.
Where do people think the funding will come from. The Tories are pulling the wool over everyones eyes by suggesting Insurance. Who the fuck is gonna <STRONG>pay</STRONG> for this insurance? Funnily enough, the people who happen to pay for this already through their taxes. We wouldn't be any better off, we'd just be paying under a different scheme...
And whilst I'm on a rant can I just add that any politician who stands up and says that no modernisation is happening in the NHS is either a) a deluded fool, b) lying or c) not in contact with their local NHS. EVERY NHS Trust (whether GP surgery, or hospital) is currently modernising. There is no opt out, it is mandatory and as senior heads are on the line, in each Trust, you can be pretty damn sure that it is getting the focus it needs <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Or was that just a quick swipe at New Labour?
Just have a look at how much the Americans pay their tax, I don't normally praise the American system <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> They pay much less than us. OK I know most of them take private insurance as well, but the point is why do we need to be taken away a considerable part of our salaries to tax?
Is the extra money you will now pay not going to a worthwhile cause? Do you disagree that the NHS is underfunded?
There's no such thing as a free lunch <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
[ 19-04-2002: Message edited by: Kentish ]
You answered that yourself, haven't you. They pay for health insurance <STRONG>on top</STRONG> of their taxes. Yours is included.
Someone quoted this week that an average US family would pay approx £100 per <STRONG>week</STRONG> for health insurence. Now I'm not sure if that is true, but its work considering.
Health insurance is different from tax. There is a choice of buying insurance or not, and there is a choice of which type of health insurance to buy. However, NI is a fixed rate to everybody. I don't have a choice of paying how much for my health care. Some people think they don't need so much health care and some people think they need more. But under NI contribution everyone pays the same rate. So what we pay for is not necessary equal to what we need.
...no different from insurance then...
The government is the only institute able to fairly distribute resources to everyone that needs them thus they take our money but then invest it in the economy...
In fact nothing is taken away from anyone because we all get the benefits of the governments investment.......
Its just more equitable........
But the consequence of opt out systems if that you change the very essence of healthcare. Why should a person with limited cover be funded for a liver transplant? What people think they will need and what actually happens are too different things...how many people only have third party, fire and theft cover for their car - only to run into a lamppost?
The very reason we use the tax system is that it means that everyone can have the right to treatment based on need, rather than what insurance cover they can afford. Remember, you can get private insurance now (if you can afford it) but your basic healthcare is covered from the moment you are born until you die...