Home Politics & Debate
At The Mix, we want to make our services as helpful as we can. To do this, we’d love to ask you a few questions about you, your visit to The Mix and its impact. It should take only about 5-10 minutes to complete. Take this survey and get a chance at winning a £200 Amazon voucher​.
Come and join our Support Circle, every Tuesday, 8 - 9:30pm! Sign up here

Armed forces pathetic 3% pay rise

MixBotMixBot Posts: 8,656 Automated Account
This Government, which is well-known for its hatred of the military and its ethos of good discipline, (something MPs forgot about a long time ago) has made an announcement on the wages in the armed forces;

"The armed forces will get an above-inflation pay rise of 3%, Defence Secretary John Reid has announced. The lowest army ranks of private and lance corporal and their equivalents in the RAF and Royal Navy will get a bigger increase of 3.3%. Mr Reid said the pay award recognised "the particular sacrifices and dangers" faced by the UK's armed forces. UK inflation was 1.9% in December and the Bank of England expects it to remain near 2% over the next two years."

<< DETAILS >>

This pay rise is pathetic. Absolutely ridicilous. This is a Government which is cutting the size of the military, all in the name of its warped form of "progress". This is a Government that is cutting the funding for the military. Seeing we are apparently at war with terrorism, shouldn't spending be going UP? And the pay rise doesn't compare well to some, does it? Remember the 40% pay rise our fat, bloated MPs gave themselves a few years ago? New Labour betrays our armed forces yet again.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm all for less military spending tbh...

    though MP payrises suck
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    This pay rise is pathetic. Absolutely ridicilous. This is a Government which is cutting the size of the military, all in the name of its warped form of "progress". This is a Government that is cutting the funding for the military. Seeing we are apparently at war with terrorism, shouldn't spending be going UP?.

    Its as good a pay raise as most people get given how low inflation is.

    And, in case you hadn't noticed we dont use the Army for the 'war on terror' we use them for pointless wars in the Middle East.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    And, in case you hadn't noticed we dont use the Army for the 'war on terror' we use them for pointless wars in the Middle East.
    Ah yes... we use pointless legislation to deal with the terrorism we've created, don't we?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Ah yes... we use pointless legislation to deal with the terrorism we've created, don't we?

    That's what they say its for, but to anyone reasonable its obviously they're to give the government more power and to annoy people who already dislike us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    That's what they say its for, but to anyone reasonable its obviously they're to give the government more power and to annoy people who already dislike us.
    Exactly. It has nothing to do with terrorism, everything to do with New Labour. Not that the Tories would seriously do anything to stop it either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The pay rise is not astronomical but is a good 50% higher than the rate of inflation.

    I'd be interested to see how it compares with other public service jobs incidentally... nurses, teachers, civil servants...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The pay rise is not astronomical but is a good 50% higher than the rate of inflation. I'd be interested to see how it compares with other public service jobs incidentally... nurses, teachers, civil servants...
    Indeed. Or maybe we could compare it with people in useless public sector jobs that we don't need. I wonder how much a five-a-day co-ordinator has received. (and no, I won't stop going on about this until every single one has been fired and found proper jobs) Now, where did I put my copy of Society? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I'd be interested to see how it compares with other public service jobs incidentally... nurses, teachers, civil servants...

    In education the norm seems to be about the 2.5 - 2.8% mark, as far as I can tell.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    I wonder how much a five-a-day co-ordinator has received. (and no, I won't stop going on about this until every single one has been fired and found proper jobs) :rolleyes:

    Have you stopped to think that they might actually save the government money?

    If they are somewhat successful and people start eating more healthy food it would be a lot less strain on the NHS and therefore less money spent over all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Have you stopped to think that they might actually save the government money?If they are somewhat successful and people start eating more healthy food it would be a lot less strain on the NHS and therefore less money spent over all.
    I don't want someone from the Government telling me how to eat. And definitely not a government that's as keen about GM as this one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given that the British are probably the unhealthiest and fattest people in Europe, fast approaching the levels of the US, it would be highly irresponsible of any government not to do something about it.

    Bring more five a day coordinators I say.

    But going back to the topic, the pay increase for the armed forces is more or less in line with many other public sector jobs, from nurses to teachers.

    I'd be more than happy for all of them to get bigger pay rises, but then taxes would have to be raised. I don't have a problem with that but I suspect you and many others would. But we cannot have it both ways.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The pay award isn't bad - its above the rate of inflation so its an increase in real terms.

    That said the Government is cutting defence spending to the bone and we're way behind on our insurance premiums. It reminds me of the 20s and 30s when Governments cut defence becasue they couldn't see an immediate threat. The problem was it was cut too much and armed forces can't be rebuilt overnight. Appeasment, the fall of France and ten of thousands of soldiers dying because of the failure of politicans tend to be forgotten or glossed over by blaming the wrong people (the guilty men were not Chanmberlain and his Govt, but Baldwin, Ramsay MacDonald and those who refused to see the only guarantee of safety abd freedom is men with guns).

    At some point we'll pay the price.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seeing as Britain's armed forces are amongst the best and strongest in the world, cuts or no cuts, that they are vastly superior to any nation that could be considered a threat, and that the biggest danger to this country today does not come from nations or regular armies but from single-cell terrorists for which the army is no use, I don't see much problem with cutting our defence budget to be honest.

    I get the feeling most of the calls for a bigger, stronger military do not come from any reasoned analysis but from a primal instinct of "boys and their toys" and "my army is better than yours".

    The world, and in particular the West spends far far too much on defence. Budgets should be cut by 50% at least.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    You know, at least it is SOME form of Payrise. It's not like they are badly paid anyway.

    We sure should invest more in the Armed Forces mind. We have the best... so let's make it even bigger.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Seeing as Britain's armed forces are amongst the best and strongest in the world, cuts or no cuts, that they are vastly superior to any nation that could be considered a threat, and that the biggest danger to this country today does not come from nations or regular armies but from single-cell terrorists for which the army is no use, I don't see much problem with cutting our defence budget to be honest.

    I get the feeling most of the calls for a bigger, stronger military do not come from any reasoned analysis but from a primal instinct of "boys and their toys" and "my army is better than yours".

    The world, and in particular the West spends far far too much on defence. Budgets should be cut by 50% at least.

    Not among the best they are the best (with the possible exception of the RAF who I'm not sure I trust to find the right country never mind hit something within it - but I digress).

    However they're too small and have no capability to even take relatively small losses and be able to operate. Both Germany and France spend significantly more and the French, at least, ally that spending with a generally well trained and well led military. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

    Now neither of these states are a threat at the moment. In 1932 no-one saw Germany as a threat and the British actually had the ten year rule in effect (ie there would be no major war within the next ten years). Ten years later we were being chased across the desert by Rommell and his German/Italian army.

    In the end armed forces are like insurance policies. You hope you never have to use them, but in the end you need to put enough money in to cover you if you're house catches fire
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However many disagreeements we might have with our European neighbours I doubt it would ever come to force again... :D

    How does the Royal Navy compare with those of Germany or France? We have more aircraft carriers right?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What i find dispicable of this Government is to wage multiple wars all over the world, some justified like Sierre Leone relief effort and others not so justified such as the Iraq invasion, yet refuses to spent on making sure our troops have the right equipment for the job. More die because they dont have enough armour in the bullit proof vests and things. i hate it!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    What i find dispicable of this Government is to wage multiple wars all over the world, some justified like Sierre Leone relief effort and others not so justified such as the Iraq invasion, yet refuses to spent on making sure our troops have the right equipment for the job. More die because they dont have enough armour in the bullit proof vests and things. i hate it!
    Melting boots and an issue gun that jams, anyone?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still remember that brilliant Bremner, Bird and Fortune sketch a while ago, with one of the Johns posing as an Army chief and the other as a journalist.

    'Our helicopters were designed for cold-climate operations, and the rotors usually last 500 hours. After exercises in Qatar we found out that in desert conditions their operational life is somewhat reduced.'

    'To what?'

    'Er... 27 hours.'

    'Did that come as a surprise?'

    'It did to the pilots.'


    Vintage :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I saw that, ,remember the bit about the tanks? Legendary!
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Aladdin wrote:
    However many disagreeements we might have with our European neighbours I doubt it would ever come to force again... :D

    How does the Royal Navy compare with those of Germany or France? We have more aircraft carriers right?

    I think we have the most within Europe.
    And our Navy has always been the best. Then again, we are an island. So we need it.

    And remember the sketch where it says "If you are invading, please let john know" and we have one soldier :D Ahhh.

    Anyway. We have the best forces, but we won't have many of them at the current cuts rate. Just as we fix the SA80 with the A2 version so it ACTUALLY WORKS. Still not grand, but at least it is reliable. And accurate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Got the pretty good Eurofighter Typhoon as well... then again so do Germany, Italy and Spain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    I don't want someone from the Government telling me how to eat. And definitely not a government that's as keen about GM as this one.

    they are not telling you how to eat

    they are telling you how you CAN eat healthy
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    However many disagreeements we might have with our European neighbours I doubt it would ever come to force again... :D

    How does the Royal Navy compare with those of Germany or France? We have more aircraft carriers right?
    Well we have more without abestos :)

    But the French Navy is now larger than us

    And whilst I agree its unlikely the consequences of being wrong could be pretty horrific. I don't think its likely my house will burn down, but I still have insurance against it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Eurofighters! Pah, i say again Pah!

    We should have offered to make the lot, but sold the European nations versions with huge flaws and defects! kept the good working ones for ourselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Both Germany and France spend significantly more and the French, at least, ally that spending with a generally well trained and well led military. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm

    Don't know which figures are correct but wikipedia shows the British armed forces expenditure as over double that of the German armed forces.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr

    France and Germany don't do much anyway. As insignificant European contributions to NATO in Afghanistan have displayed.

    What we need to worry about however is China. The US are getting worried it would seem. I’m in favour of maintaining if not increasing our defence expenditure. Lets also remember the military can be incredibly useful in natural disasters too. Although more money for our intelligence services is more important with the present terrorist threat we don't know what other future threats we'll face.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Aladdin wrote:
    Got the pretty good Eurofighter Typhoon as well... then again so do Germany, Italy and Spain.

    The Eurofighter... good jet. Shame ours have NO FUCKING CANNON. Ffs.

    Besides, it'd have been cheaper to get a bunch of far superior Super Flankers. :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Don't know which figures are correct but wikipedia shows the British armed forces expenditure as over double that of the German armed forces.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Armed_Forces
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr

    France and Germany don't do much anyway. As insignificant European contributions to NATO in Afghanistan have displayed.

    What we need to worry about however is China. The US are getting worried it would seem. I’m in favour of maintaining if not increasing our defence expenditure. Lets also remember the military can be incredibly useful in natural disasters too. Although more money for our intelligence services is more important with the present terrorist threat we don't know what other future threats we'll face.

    MoD puts are budget in 05-6 as just under £31bn. They also claim that's higher thats second only to the US, but the same % of GDP as German. france and Italy.

    Of course as a collorary all defence spending needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, not everyone calculates it in the same way. I don't know if it still holds, but the US used to have NASA under defence which used to gobble up a fair chunk of their spending. And some countries include pensions and others don't. Countries with regular forces (rather than conscript) also tend to have higher pension and wage costs.

    What I do know is that the UK military is seriously overstretched - much more than when I was in. There's often hardly any gap between tours and the infantry is struggling to a) recruit enough people b) keep those its got.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Accoridng to this site, , we are seventh, but it hasnt been updated in a while. Either way, its quality that really counts. The British armed forces are in a dire state, they are being cutback, but they don't have enough as it is. What is this government doing?

    Worry about China? Not like anyone can do anything about them, too late as it is! They forces have high enough tech now (Before it was fairly shit), so they are more than capable of fending anyone off. All they have to develop now, is a lbueater navy. And they are well on the way - Their Aircraft carrier, the Varyag, is nearly complete now. With a few more units, they'll be done, and they are expeanding the Navy rapidly.

    China is well on the way to being a superpower, and it's a bit late for anyone to stop them. :/
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Better than nowt, int it?
Sign In or Register to comment.