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Is there such thing as too much profit?

Yes, there is:

Shell posts the biggest profits in British history

And before someone starts complaining, the increased profit do not come from increased sales, but from sneaky price increases.

I.e. we're cheeky chaps and we'll take the opportunity to add a few pennies here and there when oil price rises, and then blame it on the markets- and let the consumer be screwed over twice.

If there was ever a need for a windfall tax... :rolleyes:
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is what happens when you let governments intervene in the marketplace.
    And before someone starts complaining, the increased profit do not come from increased sales, but from sneaky price increases.

    No, they come from a lack of competition.
    If there was ever a need for a windfall tax... :rolleyes:

    Oh yeah, just what blair and brown need, more cash to go buy guns with. You really are soft in the head. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If there was ever a need for a windfall tax... :rolleyes:

    Nope, we get stupid amounts of tax from them already, taxing them any higher would either mean we pay more at the pumps or they shift offices abroad.

    Yes they are making massive profits, but they are also massively investing in new oil, something we need them to do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the increased profit do not come from increased sales, but from sneaky price increases.

    It comes from increases in world prices for oil, which Shell has little to no control over.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But if it weren't profiteering they would have not seen profits going up by nearly 33%. One thing is passing on increased costs to your buyer, another is taking them to the cleaners.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    This is what happens when you let governments intervene in the marketplace.



    No, they come from a lack of competition.



    Oh yeah, just what blair and brown need, more cash to go buy guns with. You really are soft in the head. :rolleyes:

    Lack of competition? The nature of some industries is high barriers to entry, you can't change that... And there is competition.. it's just some do the job better than others.

    Though i agree some profits are way too much especially when theyre screwing the customer over, you can't change companies wanting more money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lack of competition? The nature of some industries is high barriers to entry, you can't change that...

    Nah, bobbins. Course you can. You can start by removing the ability to incorporate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The oil industry will still have huge barriers to entry cos of the oil prices, its never gonna be a perfectly competitive market (nor is anything else for that matter)...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The oil industry will still have huge barriers to entry cos of the oil prices, its never gonna be a perfectly competitive market (nor is anything else for that matter)...

    Nah, again, bobbins. With profits like that, if there wasn't a state supported fiction in the way, there would be hundreds of people chancing their arm in the field.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah, they all chance their arm and lose cos of the other companies doing it better ... it's like a race... would you prefer that in the olympics all the 100m runners worked together and crossed the line at the same time?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But if it weren't profiteering they would have not seen profits going up by nearly 33%. One thing is passing on increased costs to your buyer, another is taking them to the cleaners.

    If they sold the oil closer to the cost price they would increase their market share but then have next to nothing to invest for the future.

    If we want oil for the near future we need them to invest, and for that they need to make profit. Getting oil out of sand reserves will cost a fortune.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah, they all chance their arm and lose cos of the other companies doing it better ... it's like a race... would you prefer that in the olympics all the 100m runners worked together and crossed the line at the same time?

    It's nothing like a race.

    It's more like a pie making contest. If you only let those who have previously proven good at making pies make pies, then you miss out on a lot of production and innovation. The production of pies might not be as good from some, but there'll be more of them, and so they'll be cheaper. :)

    Theres nothing wrong with failing businesses. There is something wrong with not being allowed to even compete.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    It's nothing like a race.

    It's more like a pie making contest. If you only let those who have previously proven good at making pies make pies, then you miss out on a lot of production and innovation. The production of pies might not be as good from some, but there'll be more of them, and so they'll be cheaper. :)

    Theres nothing wrong with failing businesses. There is something wrong with not being allowed to even compete.

    Yeah, and there's nothing we can do about it unless we change human nature
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, and there's nothing we can do about it unless we change human nature

    1) Theres no such thing as human nature, unless you count the really basic stuff like breathing and keeping warm.

    2) Yes there is, theres loads you can do. You could assassinate all corporate leaders, you could have a sit in and the local YMCA, you could dress like swampy and say "we shall not be moved" before being, inevitably, moved.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It may be unethical and unfair, but it is brilliant business! If you can make the most profits as a business you should do. If you can get away with shifty pricing and such, go for it! Making money is the point of a business.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    1) Theres no such thing as human nature, unless you count the really basic stuff like breathing and keeping warm.

    2) Yes there is, theres loads you can do. You could assassinate all corporate leaders, you could have a sit in and the local YMCA, you could dress like swampy and say "we shall not be moved" before being, inevitably, moved.

    assasinate the leaders then new ones are put in place, and as for the YMCA thing.. err yeah you could do that but im not sure why lol

    As for human nature... dont you think its natural to feel competitive and wanta do the best for your 'cause'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    It may be unethical and unfair, but it is brilliant business! If you can make the most profits as a business you should do. If you can get away with shifty pricing and such, go for it! Making money is the point of a business.
    How about trying to have a trace of humanity and decency towards your fellow human beings, instead of trying to screw them as much as you can get away with?

    Would you have no objection to your local shops overcharging you needlessly if they can get away with it?

    What an ugly, unpleasant and nasty business capitalism is...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    assasinate the leaders then new ones are put in place


    errrrm....no. Just don't have any permanent leaders.
    and as for the YMCA thing.. err yeah you could do that but im not sure why lol

    lol I'm not either. It's the sort of thing idiots who believe in democracy do though, sing songs and sit in the road like anyone gives a shit.
    As for human nature... dont you think its natural to feel competitive and wanta do the best for your 'cause'?

    No, not really. My "cause" is that there are no causes, if you want to put it like that. Take it or leave it, it's all the same to me.
    How about trying to have a trace of humanity and decency towards your fellow human beings, instead of trying to screw them as much as you can get away with?

    Why bother? I don't care about you, you don't care about me.
    Would you have no objection to your local shops overcharging you needlessly if they can get away with it?

    Like they don't already? :lol:

    I think your just frightened of the idea of doing things for people that the actually want you to do and are willing to voluntarily pay for.
    What an ugly, unpleasant and nasty business capitalism is...

    So we had better become thieves to sort it all out? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    How about trying to have a trace of humanity and decency towards your fellow human beings, instead of trying to screw them as much as you can get away with?

    Would you have no objection to your local shops overcharging you needlessly if they can get away with it?

    What an ugly, unpleasant and nasty business capitalism is...


    Viva la Revolution!!!

    But then again maybe not because Capitlaism has led to the most comfortable and contented societies humanity has ever produced and other systems have fallen by the wayside due to there failures.

    Better to complain on an internet discussion board......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they could get away with it, then that would mean i wouldnt be complaining, if i complained, tohers would too in the local shop situation, thus making it not occur unless they hold a monopoly, as in no other shops anywhere for many many miles.

    No one is complaining about public transport prices so they go up further, same goes for petrol companies, if mor epeople complained, like back in the fuel strike days afew years back, prices would drop most likely as they did then.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Viva la Revolution!!!

    But then again maybe not because Capitlaism has led to the most comfortable and contented societies humanity has ever produced and other systems have fallen by the wayside due to there failures.

    Better to complain on an internet discussion board......
    Are you denying that capitalism is ugly and nasty, and that it could be much better for everyone if people were less greedy?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    No one is complaining about public transport prices so they go up further
    Check again mate. Everyone is complaining- at least amongst themselfs. Nor that it makes much of a difference though.
    same goes for petrol companies, if mor epeople complained, like back in the fuel strike days afew years back, prices would drop most likely as they did then.
    The only way consumers can put pressure on companies is by doing boycotts. Boycotts however only work if they are strictly enforced, which in the case of oil companies never happens.

    The government however has the power of making such companies lower their prices. When oil prices were reaching record levels a few months ago and the oil companies creamed yet more profits while the price at the pump went through the roof, some European country (can't remember which) threatened to impose an immediate windfall tax on the oil companies there unless they cut their prices.

    Lo and behold, a few days later there were lower prices at the pumps, and the oil companies still had billions of euros of profit left for their shareholders. And no-one went bankrupt, and no-one had to be made redundant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Are you denying that capitalism is ugly and nasty, and that it could be much better for everyone if people were less greedy?

    Actually I think capitalism is pretty good and that evry other system has been far uglier and nastier, can you think of a btter one as practised on any large scale?

    The question of greed is irrelevant, people simply are 'greedy', I am, you are, everyone is, we all want what is best for ourselves to a large degree and the 'greed' of businesses is what drives the production of all the wonderful things that we take advantage of.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, there is no need for 'greed' at all, even in a capitalist society. That kind of thinking belongs in the bin with the rest of the Thatcherite approach to life.

    There is nothing good about greed. And it is possible to make a living and even make a very tidy profit without being greedy and without abusing your position and ripping off others.

    Just because many people do it doesn't make it right. Anyone with a moral compass in them should be able to work it out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depedns what you mean by greed, if you mean putting yourself first then everybody does this, you, me everyone, don't pretend it isn't so.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually I wouldn't necessarily call that greed. A bit of balance is called for. I simply don't subscribe to the mantra that excessive profits based on overcharging or abuse of position or power can be morally justifiable IMO.

    On a hypothetical case, the owner of the only petrol station in 40 miles charging average or slightly over average prices per litre, in line with the rest of the country, is okay. The same owner charging 115p per litre because he knows people have no option but to buy his petrol or travel for many miles is being a greedy scumbag and such attitude can never be morally justified, unless he had genuine reason for such overpricing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Depends if you view the world as a closed system or not. If it is, then excessive profit is being made off the backs of others...if not, then its possible it isnt. I personally think its obscene that for the profits of some companies we could immunise alot of diseases in the third world, but to rememdy that you'd need to give someone the powers to do that...and it ends up being another economic tyranny.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You do all realise Greed has been around in business, economics and politics since long before Thatcher, so lets not all jump on that scapegoat excuses of "Thatcher is the devil she made the world greedy"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    You do all realise Greed has been around in business, economics and politics since long before Thatcher, so lets not all jump on that scapegoat excuses of "Thatcher is the devil she made the world greedy"

    Yes, but she helped found the ideological justification for neo-liberal trade policies and made the ideas of Milton Friedman (which worked so well in Chile) popular.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this the right time for a discussion of surplus value and Marx?


    *scarpers*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    as much as you can get away with?

    local shops overcharging you needlessly if they can get away with it?

    ...
    sounds like the antique trade you work in.
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