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Looks like Hamas has won the Palestinian elections

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes ...wearing a suit makes a big difference.
    they now have to learn all about compromise and even keeping the electorate happy.
    they now have to operate more and more like all the other suits on the world stage.
    do you actualy know how many israeli leaders were terrorists?

    Their first PM was, as I recall. Didn't stop the British dealing with him when they needed too (admittedly after they tried to get Israel invaded). But politics does take the violent edge off most people, especially in democratic systems. Hell, look how gently the IRA went in comparison to how they could have/how other terrorists have gone on their mainland campaign.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    How about Israel promises to withdraw in full from the West Bank as per 1967 borders in exchange for a full and total stop to terrorist activity?

    Is that a good compromise enough?

    Well that proposal has never been on the table has it? If it was and the Palestinian side seemed a willing partner for peace and there could credibly be an end to terrorist activity that would be a reasonable offer. I’d imagine most Israelis would support it too. However, it’s an unrealistic initiative for the foreseeable future – the Palestinians cannot dismantle a terrorist organisation when they’ve elected it.
    Aladdin wrote:
    Because what you are failing to grasp, unintentionally or otherwise, is that Israel has never, ever said it might be prepared to withdraw in full. Not even if the Palestinians were to stop all terrorism forever. Not even if Hamas was dismantled. Not ever.

    Even Arafat would not have been able to dismantle Hamas (not that he really wanted to) so I can’t see any other Palestinian leader being able to, certainly not when they’re in government either.

    So Hamas being dismantled isn’t realistic. Nor is a 100% Israeli withdrawal. For security reasons a 100% withdrawal isn’t feasible. Ideally most of the West Bank should be under Palestinian control. Although I do not see why all settlers should withdraw. If Palestinian control would respect democratic rights and the rule of law Jewish settlers should be allowed to stay in the West Bank even if the area is under Palestinian control. Most Israelis have no problem with Arabs living in Israel. And since Jews lived in the West Bank before 1948, only being driven out then and now many others have lived there for decades I don’t see why they should all be forced to leave. Sadly I don't think they'd be safe under Palestinian control. I don't know what the solution is but major withdrawals from the West Bank would be a huge step from the Israelis and would need to be matched by some pretty significant actions on the Palestinian side.

    Also, you’re forgetting that Palestinian terrorist groups seek the total destruction of Israel. I don’t believe that further withdrawals from the Disputed Territories will magically end terrorist activity. Although further withdrawals would jeopardise Israel’s right to secure borders.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well that proposal has never been on the table has it? If it was and the Palestinian side seemed a willing partner for peace and there could credibly be an end to terrorist activity that would be a reasonable offer. I’d imagine most Israelis would support it too. However, it’s an unrealistic initiative for the foreseeable future – the Palestinians cannot dismantle a terrorist organisation when they’ve elected it.
    Perhaps they should try to put the proposal forward anyway, and see what happens.

    Previous leaders of Hamas have suggested in interviews that they would be prepared to drop their calls for Israel to be destroyed and would even go further if there was any realistic chance of the Palestinians ever getting their land back.

    It's time for negotiations. Though with both sides unwilling to make the first concession I will agree with you that the future is not particularly encouraging.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They kept on about democracy and look what happens :no:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dave777 wrote:
    They kept on about democracy and look what happens :no:

    The Palestinians voted for who they want in government. You dont agree with who they vote for so that makes democracy in palestine wrong?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Though, Hamas probably isn't the most helpful choice, even from the perspective of the palesitinians. Israel won't deal with them, and neither will most of the western world on account of their undenied connection with suicide attacks. Democracy is a fine thing, until you elect Hitler.

    I'm coming closer and closer to the conclusion that democracy simply doesn't work.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    The Palestinians voted for who they want in government. You dont agree with who they vote for so that makes democracy in palestine wrong?

    Well yeah, if you're a NeoCon. Remember what happened to Hugo Chavez? And I quote from the White House..."a majority of voters...does not confer legitimacy on his government."

    However, look at how the USA and the EU are now working Hamas from the economic angle. If they hadn't been voted in, that angle of attack wouldnt have even been possible. Hamas have got to worry about setting up a new government (which Fatah is not helping with at all, hehheh), deal with the money situation and keep the voters happy. Its as problematic for them as us, if not more so.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One should expect such rhetoric from a US administration which was never legitimately voted in according to sound, transparent democratic process, cain.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One should expect such rhetoric from a US administration which was never legitimately voted in according to sound, transparent democratic process, cain.

    Well....yeah. Thats why I find it amusing to trot it out at every possible chance. Nothing like consistency, eh?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hamas are trying to form a government with no help from Fattah, even though most of the Palestinian security forces are Fattah controlled.

    America and the EU are saying that they are going to cut off all funding, finance and aid of any kind to the palestinians if Hamas fail to become a proper non-terrorist associated government.

    I don't see Hamas having much chance really of lasting the long haul in politics, but i do see them continuing success in military and violence based activities. They are trained experts now after all.

    Did anyone else hear the story about how Hamas have employed PR personel to help them become more likable? they have been advised to;
    1) stop talking about the destruction of Israel.
    2) stop been involvd in killing activities.
    3) Change beard colour (If Ginger)

    I hope its true and not just made up! Would be so much funnier.
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