Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.

Looks like Hamas has won the Palestinian elections

24

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how do you think the paestinians should protect their land then?

    If every Palestinian terrorist organisation said tomorrow that they will no longer pursue violence to achieve their goals and will commit to attempting to attain their aims solely through diplomatic and peaceful means Israeli anti-terrorist operations would cease.

    International pressure on Israel would also duly increase, in accordance with the Roadmap to Peace Israel would commit to further withdrawals and a Palestinian state would materialise.

    Anyway how is killing Israeli teenagers at nightclubs or Israeli housewives shopping protecting Palestinian land?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If every Palestinian terrorist organisation said tomorrow that they will no longer pursue violence to achieve their goals and will commit to attempting to attain their aims solely through diplomatic and peaceful means Israeli anti-terrorist operations would cease.

    If the terrorist state of Israel which began the conflict and has continued the ethnocide and expulsion of the indigenous peoples of the land to the present day were to cease all violence, acknowledge their terrorist origins and their decades of crimes against humanity, and disavow their adherence to an ideology of group particularism for those of Jewish faith over all others, there would be no need for further Palestinian violent reprisals and a true democratic ONE STATE solution could be found to encompass all the rightful inhabitants of the land.

    As such, the state of Israel has never wanted peace and therefore would never concede to such honest and pluralistic requirements.

    Simple as Dis. If you can't acknowledge the guilt of the state of Israel then your claims of support for peace are just as fraudulent as those spouted by former terrorists-turned-"statesmen" themselves.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    If every Palestinian terrorist organisation said tomorrow that they will no longer pursue violence to achieve their goals and will commit to attempting to attain their aims solely through diplomatic and peaceful means Israeli anti-terrorist operations would cease.

    They tried that.

    The result was the Israeli's dropping a fuck-oof bomb on some Civilians. Useful.

    They tried other times too. The result being, unsupprisingly, Israeli Violence. Israel has broken the Cease Fires, not Palestinian Terrorists.

    Both sides are in the wrong, but one is far deeper in that the other, and is still illegally occupying foregin land, not just Palestinian Land either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clandestine -
    There’s little point in us even discussing this. I support ideologically and politically the State of Israel; the 1947 UN Partition plan and preceding plans for a Jewish state were reasonable and necessary imo.

    I believe in a two-state solution. The ‘ONE STATE’ solution you propose frightens me; what solution do you propose to those who are not 'rightful inhabitants' of the land in your eyes – and the eyes of Hamas? Do you like Palestinian fundamentalists wish to re-enact a Middle Eastern version of the Holocaust? Forced emigration of Jews?

    It’s a pointless discussion, whatever the fantasies of yourself and Hamas Israel isn’t going away, Israel is staying. When your mass-murdering Hamas friends accept that there can be meaningful discussion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh its clear you are blinded by your adherence to the colonial era ideology of ethnocidal conquest, Dis. Your truncated grasp of history and reliance on little more than the sanitised falsified history of the Israeli states' own terrorist origins marks you for the intellectually dishonest shill you are.

    Nothing about the 1947 partition plan respected the will of the indigenous and rightful owners of the land who were summarily murdered, raped, or forcibly driven from their homes to create what you again duplicitously claim is a "democratic" state. Nevermind the fact that any state based on a particularist inequality of rights for one socio-ethnic group has no valid claim to "democracy". That you endorse such only reinforces your real alignment with apartheid-styled inhumanity.

    Anyone who would demonstrate true adherence to democratic principle would decry Israel for its atrocities past and present and advocate a truly pluralistic society for all, present Israelis and Palestinians. This includes a cessation of the longrunning open door immigration policy for Jews regardless of their national origins and the right of return for those wrongfully driven off their land (with full restitution and official acknowledgement of prior ethnic purging as a pillar of the Zionist agenda since it was first conceived and advocated by Herzl and Weizmann, et al.) and the embracing of equal rights for all inhabitants regardless of ethnicity.

    Your precious Roadmap is a sham and always was just as was Oslo and Camp David and all prior touted "peace" plans crafted by disingenuous parties fully intentioned on maintaining the status quo and villifying the only true victims of this debacle since well before the State came into being.

    I stand with those anti-Zionist Jews who recognise the truth of this sordid history and its ongoing role in ensuring there never will be a viable peace on offer, merely rhetoric for the tv cameras and PR firms to sell to a misinformed public.

    The rest of your inane accusations about "my friends" are as baseless as your supposed appreciation of historic truth. Best you question the true nature of your mass-murdering terrorist bedfellows.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    They tried that.

    The result was the Israeli's dropping a fuck-oof bomb on some Civilians. Useful.

    They tried other times too. The result being, unsupprisingly, Israeli Violence. Israel has broken the Cease Fires, not Palestinian Terrorists.

    Both sides are in the wrong, but one is far deeper in that the other, and is still illegally occupying foregin land, not just Palestinian Land either.

    Care to refer to actual cases? Cause the above description was pretty vague :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Care to refer to actual cases? Cause the above description was pretty vague :)

    Lebanon in 1982. The Israeli's bombed whole blocks of flats because they're might have been Arafat and his chums in there.
    And indeed the Israeli's did steal the land, driving the Palestinian peoples out through violence, threats and fear.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Renzo wrote:
    Lebanon in 1982. The Israeli's bombed whole blocks of flats because they're might have been Arafat and his chums in there.
    And indeed the Israeli's did steal the land, driving the Palestinian peoples out through violence, threats and fear.

    Thanks! They also used a fucking huge bomb for that. Also, they have repeatadley bomb Refugee camps, and used Super cobra's to attack them. See, they 'might' contain terrorists. Might.

    I think all of the land Israel occupies is done so illegally... anyone know different? The UN is quite happy to overlook this, mind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Thanks! They also used a fucking huge bomb for that.

    I think all of the land Israel occupies is done so illegally... anyone know different? The UN is quite happy to overlook this, mind.

    Aslong as the USA is treating Israel like a little mummys boy who can do no wrong i fear the UN won't be able to do anything especially with the US veto in things. Vetos should be erradicated anyway...but thats a tale for another time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It goes beyond incidents of direct military attack, however, Gerb. Even day to day life in the occupied territories has long been a neverending exercise in dehumanisation and quiet oppression even away from border areas. Entire neighbourhoods cordoned off with cement slabs, routine incursions into Palestinian homes, verbal and racial abuse from occupying forces, etc.

    I'd love to see our resident apologists' response if they were to live under these brutal conditions and watch their children and their children's children (should they manage to live so long) suffer the same indignity.

    And this from a people who claim eternal victimhood as their carte blanche from criticism and condemnation. How they dishonour their forebears who suffered similar dehumanisation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No. Sharon supports/supported a Palestinian state; he was in favour of the Roadmap for Peace and was willing to make huge sacrifices in accordance with that. Sharon withdrew from Gaza and hinted at further withdrawals in the West Bank and the present acting Prime Minister has also expressed support for that belief. (Hamas meanwhile hate the idea of two states living in peace side by side and instead want to destroy Israel).
    He must have been a different Sharon to the one who won the election on a far right zionist ticket after single-handedly starting the second Intifada with his deliberately provocative visit to the Temple Mount. Or to the one who proceeded to inflict the hardest, most horrendous conditions for the Palestinians yet in the history of the conflict. Or who erected an Apartheid-Nazi concentration camp style Wall- a Wall that stole yet more land for Israel, divided many Palestinian towns in half and ruined the lives of countless farmers.

    Not to mention his continued refusal (though in fairness he's no different to any other Israeli PM in history) to consider withdrawing from Occupied Palestine in full. On the contrary: he has approved dozens of new expansions of the tumour-like illegal settlements plaguing the West Bank, which cancel out the Gaza withdrawal several times over.

    I'll give him one thing: he's been good for zionism. His 'disengagement plan' was a cynically calculated plot to cement an Israeli foothold in the West Bank by "generously" withdrawing from Gaza. And it seems to have worked.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have a question;

    Even though Israel may have been formed out of illegal actions, doesn't the fact that it is now internationally accepted and mandated to exist mean it is in fact legal even if it came about illegally?

    Furthermore, at present Palestine is not a "legal" established nation is it? Is it not small groups of land, states with in the nation of Israel? So, even though it does not exist now, couldnt it come into existance as its own nation at some point, even through the use of illegal actions like terror, suicide bombings etc? in essence, by making society and life in the region so dangerous and untollerable that the rest of the world has to cave in and accept the existence of such a nation?

    Interestingly ironic really if you think about it and how civilisations and nations are formed.

    More ironic to think that one mark of "civilisation" is to wage war in some form. Hmmm i guess thta means Switzerland are not a real civilisations...wait that can't be right...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even though Israel may have been formed out of illegal actions, doesn't the fact that it is now internationally accepted and mandated to exist mean it is in fact legal even if it came about illegally?

    Who cares if it's legal, they are murderers. I shoot your parents or kids and then say it's "ok" because it's legal, would you accept it?

    No wonder that neither side in this conflict accepts it either.
    Furthermore, at present Palestine is not a "legal" established nation is it? Is it not small groups of land, states with in the nation of Israel?

    No. See my many comments about Israel or palestine not actually existing, because no country exists. What they are both saying is that it's ok to turf people out of their houses and shoot them because of a favoured fiction. I say bullshit.

    Theres no real way around escaping the fact that both "sides" are flat out fucking wrong in this dispute. Each "side" wanks on about the atrocities the other "side" has commited and then justifies it's own as self defence. And then goes and does some more.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't say that they weren't all a bunch of shits on both sides, i was actually asking about the formation of nations and whether they are legally recognised nations or not.

    Also, Nations can exist! You say they don't but i am in a nation that exists so that proves they do, hence facto dittum!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Israel should not negotiate with an organisation which routinely calls for its destruction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also, Nations can exist! You say they don't but i am in a nation that exists so that proves they do, hence facto dittum!

    Really? How do you know? Ever seen a border? What colour was it? Where and when was it "created", who by and how?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Really?
    How do you know?

    Lots of reasons - including the fact that I have a piece of cardboard and paper which tells everyone I'm a citizen of it.
    Ever seen a border?

    Yes
    What colour was it?

    Different colours. Sort of grass green in some cases. Others were a concrety colour
    Where and when was it "created", who by and how?

    Depends on the border doesn't it. The one between Germany and France is much more recent and created by different people than the one between England and Wales
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lots of reasons - including the fact that I have a piece of cardboard and paper which tells everyone I'm a citizen of it.

    So if I have a piece of paper proclaiming me a citizen of legoland, then legoland exists?
    Different colours. Sort of grass green in some cases. Others were a concrety colour

    Anything you could see that was different about them than any other piece of concrete or grass?
    Depends on the border doesn't it. The one between Germany and France is much more recent and created by different people than the one between England and Wales

    Any will do, tbh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    So if I have a piece of paper proclaiming me a citizen of legoland, then legoland exists?

    Legoland does exist


    Anything you could see that was different about them than any other piece of concrete or grass?

    yes it had a sign on it welcoming me to East Germany

    Any will do, tbh.

    http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-4881.html

    What about this for West Germany. Use google or the library and you'll be able to find out even more. Amazing isn't it it what one can find out with five minute research.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You missed a question.....
    Legoland does exist

    Oh cool. Does it have citizens? How do you become a citizen of legoland? Any proof that it's borders exist?
    yes it had a sign on it welcoming me to East Germany

    So if the sign wasn't there, there would be no border? If a group of pranksters had set one up a mile further down the line, there would be two borders? If there were no signs there would be no borders and therefore no countries?
    What about this for West Germany.

    Quick question springs to mind. If you get the power to create borders from being within the previous countries borders or another countries borders, how do you make the first one?

    Also, your article names no people, only "britain" "united states" etc which person is this, specifically?
    Use google or the library and you'll be able to find out even more. Amazing isn't it it what one can find out with five minute research.

    I do use google. I like the pictures from space. I can't see any borders on those photographs though. Do you use special glasses or something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    And indeed the Israeli's did steal the land, driving the Palestinian peoples out through violence, threats and fear.

    What are you referring to? The British Balfour Declaration that expressed support for a Jewish homeland? The UN Partition plan 1947 that democratically approved two states; a Jewish and an Arab one? The flight of Palestinians during the 1948 war? (In which case it’s well established that there were multiple causes of Palestinian flight) Or the capture of the Disputed Territories?

    The Disputed Territories prior to being under Israeli control were controlled by Egypt and Jordan; there has never been any separate Palestinian state. Although Israel does support the creation of a Palestinian state in accordance with the Roadmap to Peace. For security reasons Israel as some UN resolutions have recognised is justified in not withdrawing from all of the Disputed Territories; Israel has a right to ‘secure borders’ and withdrawal from the Disputed Territories in their entirety would put Israel at grave risk. Try and comprehend that Israel is surrounded by people extremely hostile to it. (Israel has however made clear that it will withdraw from large sections of the Disputed Territories in exchange for peace; in 2000 Israel actually offered to withdraw from 97% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza at the Camp David talks with Clinton. The Palestinians turned down the offer and didn't even make a counter-offer. Since then Sharon withdrew from Gaza and hinted at further withdrawals, the present acting Prime Minister too has stated that Israel intends to make withdrawals from the West Bank). - Meanwhile the Palestinians instead of disarming terrorist organisations in accordance with the Roadmap to Peace have expressed mass support for armed terrorist organisations through the ballot box.

    Why don't you read about this conflict? It's obvious you haven't up to now. I’d suggest you check out Efraim Karsh, Avi Shlaim and Benny Morris. Morris is very balanced, Karsh leans more towards the Zionist view and Shlaim more to the Palestinian but all three are pretty reputable scholarly historians at excellent institutions.

    While I’d prefer the British Foreign Office to take a more pro-Israeli line they presently take a very balanced and neutral approach recognising that there are problems on both sides. However, they’ve recognised that recently it has been the Israelis willing to compromise and the Palestinians rejecting peace in favour of demonstrating mass support for a terrorist organisation. The FCO which is made up of people far more knowledgeable on the intricacies of this conflict than me or you is a pretty credible authority on this. Certainly more so than Clandestine – who bases his opinions on conspiracy driven homemade amateur websites with nameless authors; and like any extremist targets young and impressionble people on political youth forums to spread his extreme ideology. Listen to what the FCO have to say and do a bit of reading before making ill-informed sweeping generalisations that simply aren't true.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The British Balfour Declaration

    Is just a piece of paper. Why do you support killers, thieves and liars?
    The UN Partition plan 1947

    Just another piece of paper. Why do you support killers, thieves and liars?
    democratically

    No one has the right to kill you or make you homeless, no matter how great their numbers. they have the power, but that's a different thing entirely. Why do you support killers, thieves and liars?
    Israel, Palestine, other mystical imaginary things

    Who do you actually mean when you say these things. Which people, what are their names, what do they look like? Do they have kids, or dress sense? What makes them fall into one group or another? You speak as though there is some kind of telepathic link. Are you just a really really lazy thinker, or do they have a special power I don't know about?

    Why do you support killers, thieves and liars?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Certainly more so than Clandestine – who bases his opinions on conspiracy driven homemade amateur websites

    A lie that has already been addressed and dispensed with multiple times. Pathetic that you should continue to demonstrate your intellectual dishonesty (rooted obviously in your adherence to an ideology which has been noted for its reliance on fabricated historic revisionism).
    with nameless authors

    Again a lie and one which anyone interested in the truth of the matter can verify for themselves from past threads. Strike two my dishonest and desperate little nemesis.
    and like any extremist targets young and impressionble people on political youth forums to spread his extreme ideology.

    Ideology is your forte and dependency as is your reliance upon untruth as demonstrated above. That you should call a demand for full acknowledgement of the dehumanisation, ethnocide and group particularism inherent to your abominable apartheid ideology "Extreme" only reinforces my belief in your deluded mental condition. The logical extension of the principle you endorse would clearly ally you with the former SA regime, Naziism (another former group particularist ideology taken to its extreme but essentially the same in principle) and indeed the values espoused by White Supremists in the US.

    Clearly bigotted, racist militantancy against rightful landholders, the perpetual imprisonment of their progeny in concentration camp-styled bantustans and daily abuse and slaughter is normal to your warped sensibilities.

    That you also presume to dictate who may or may not post on this site, repeatedly used I might add as your last refuge from having to face your own ideological duplicity, is all the more pathetic.
    sweeping generalisations that simply aren't true.

    Unfortunately you and those few who share your misguided and anti-democratic beliefs here are the only ones making sweeping generalisations that simply arent true.

    Its apparent that even your coming years of education areent going to provide you with any intellectual credibility Dis. Forcing the historic record to conform to your ideological preconceptions remains a mark of academic fraud.

    Stop forcing your extreme lies on those "impressionable young minds" please.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What are you referring to? The British Balfour Declaration that expressed support for a Jewish homeland? The UN Partition plan 1947 that democratically approved two states; a Jewish and an Arab one? The flight of Palestinians during the 1948 war? (In which case it’s well established that there were multiple causes of Palestinian flight) Or the capture of the Disputed Territories?

    The Disputed Territories prior to being under Israeli control were controlled by Egypt and Jordan; there has never been any separate Palestinian state. Although Israel does support the creation of a Palestinian state in accordance with the Roadmap to Peace. For security reasons Israel as some UN resolutions have recognised is justified in not withdrawing from all of the Disputed Territories; Israel has a right to ‘secure borders’ and withdrawal from the Disputed Territories in their entirety would put Israel at grave risk. Try and comprehend that Israel is surrounded by people extremely hostile to it. (Israel has however made clear that it will withdraw from large sections of the Disputed Territories in exchange for peace; in 2000 Israel actually offered to withdraw from 97% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza at the Camp David talks with Clinton. The Palestinians turned down the offer and didn't even make a counter-offer. Since then Sharon withdrew from Gaza and hinted at further withdrawals, the present acting Prime Minister too has stated that Israel intends to make withdrawals from the West Bank). - Meanwhile the Palestinians instead of disarming terrorist organisations in accordance with the Roadmap to Peace have expressed mass support for armed terrorist organisations through the ballot box.

    Why don't you read about this conflict? It's obvious you haven't up to now. I’d suggest you check out Efraim Karsh, Avi Shlaim and Benny Morris. Morris is very balanced, Karsh leans more towards the Zionist view and Shlaim more to the Palestinian but all three are pretty reputable scholarly historians at excellent institutions.

    While I’d prefer the British Foreign Office to take a more pro-Israeli line they presently take a very balanced and neutral approach recognising that there are problems on both sides. However, they’ve recognised that recently it has been the Israelis willing to compromise and the Palestinians rejecting peace in favour of demonstrating mass support for a terrorist organisation. The FCO which is made up of people far more knowledgeable on the intricacies of this conflict than me or you is a pretty credible authority on this. Certainly more so than Clandestine – who bases his opinions on conspiracy driven homemade amateur websites with nameless authors; and like any extremist targets young and impressionble people on political youth forums to spread his extreme ideology. Listen to what the FCO have to say and do a bit of reading before making ill-informed sweeping generalisations that simply aren't true.

    You complain of untrue, ill-informed sweeping generalisations and yet you can't even recognise the most basic of facts: that the Territories are Occupied (and illegally occupied at that), not "Disputed".

    You also speak of UN resolutions. Funny that. Every resolution I can think of (the ones that Israel's puppet the US didn't veto, that is) calls for the full and permanent withdrawal from the totality of occupied Palestine, as per 1967 borders.

    It's been 40 years of vague claims about "right to security" and "securing one's borders". Whichever validity those claims ever had, they lost it decades ago.

    There is no justification or excuse whatsoever for the continuing illegal occupation of the West Bank. And for as long as Israel refuses to withdraw, there will never be peace. Never. Ever.

    That is what it all boils down to.

    The ball is, as it has ever been, at Israel's court.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo, For further reading I would point you to the following site which offers numerous analyses on varying aspects of the history as well as bibliographies for additional study...

    http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story452.html

    Id also suggest you take note of the works of Dr. Alfred Lilienthal, Edward Said, Avi Shlaim (one of the supposedly "unnamed" authors I originally provided upon demand for our lying ideologue above) and Norman Finkelstein.

    That should provide more than ample starting points should you be interested to dig deeper.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    You also speak of UN resolutions. Funny that. Every resolution I can think of (the ones that Israel's puppet the US didn't veto, that is) calls for the full and permanent withdrawal from the totality of occupied Palestine, as per 1967 borders.

    The foundation to Israel’s right to secure borders is in UN Resolution 242 I believe. US administrations have consistently recognised Israel’s right to secure borders, most moderate figures in the international community have recognised that Israel; a small country surrounded by hostility has a right to safe borders. It’s not an unreasonable demand, regardless Israel has displayed that it is willing to withdraw from most of the Disputed Territories. This shown by the withdrawal from Gaza and the subsequent withdrawals from the West Bank that are been actively considered, in 2000 lets not forget Israel did offer to withdraw from 97% of the West Bank. This massively generous offer was rejected by the Palestinians who did not even respond with a counter-offer, instead choosing bloodshed over peace.
    Aladdin wrote:
    The ball is, as it has ever been, at Israel's court.

    Negotiation does not work by Israel making a series of painful concessions and the Palestinians making none, that is not the means to peace. Israel has bravely withdrawn from Gaza and promised further withdrawals in the West Bank. However, Israel cannot be expected to proceed with its withdrawal strategy until Palestinian terrorism ceases.

    Israel imo, should make no further compromises with the Palestinians until Palestinian terrorist organisations are disarmed and the Palestinian population reject terrorism. As the Hamas win shows that hasn’t happened yet. Unless Hamas is going to revoke its call for the destruction of Israel, its support for mass-murder and seek a fresh mandate from the Palestinian people by changing its policies significantly opting for peace instead of war Israel cannot meaningfully negotiate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Really? How do you know? Ever seen a border? What colour was it? Where and when was it "created", who by and how?

    Well originally it was an Island, then it was conquered by invaders a bunch of times and then split into kingdoms by the dominant kings of the time. Finally Government was formed and what territory belonged to which country was decided. If it is marked on a map it is a country until such time as something happens to change it.

    For example, the Nazi invasion of the Balkans and Croat collaboration in World War 2 led to the formation of a single Yugoslavia under Tito after the war once the resistence and Red Army drove the Nazis back.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have another question;

    Can the UN actually impose sanction against Palestine anyway? I mean Can the UN dictate international law to what is still not even a nation? I mean surely if Palestine is told to do something by the UN like it is a UN member nation, does that not in fact give it credibilty as a nation? Surely the UN can not dictate to the "Palestinians" if they refuse to acknowledge them as a people, can it? (I know it can, i am being rhetorical to make a point).

    Finally, i think it is right to say that EVERYONE on here is biased in their own ways and no one can claim to be completely right and dismissive of another views, no matter how distasteful they find them. also, i think we are mature enough to leave insults at the door on this one can't we? No one on here is 100% right or wrong really as it is such a complicated subject to discuss. Just because you support Israel doesn't mean what Israel does is right and just because you are pro-palestinian doesn't mean Israel withdrawing from everywhere would solve the problem 100%, undoubtedley violence would continue!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well originally it was an Island

    "It's" not an island now?
    then it was conquered by invaders a bunch of times and then split into kingdoms by the dominant kings of the time.

    Ok, what's that got to do with us here and now? I mean the fact that Mercia etc were said to exist way back when means what to us now?
    Finally Government was formed

    Who by, where and when, what's that got to do with us?
    and what territory belonged to which country was decided.

    By who, where and when, and what's that got to do with us? Also, how do you mark out territories? I thought they already existed?
    If it is marked on a map it is a country until such time as something happens to change it.

    What's the difference between me drawing up a piece of paper and scribbling on it that you are within "klintockland" and these people (whoever they are) doing it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Klintock, I don't see what your questions have to do with the topic in hand. I think you should try and get a grasp of politics and reign in your morality - This is the nitty gritty here, try to look at the big picture. Yes there is great tragedy but that is no reason to dispute society as we know it.
Sign In or Register to comment.