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Birmingham University suspends Christian group for not admitting non-Christians

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2008732,00.html

Please tell me April 1st has come early. If this story was in the Sun I wouldn't have believed it...
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2008732,00.html

    Please tell me April 1st has come early. If this story was in the Sun I wouldn't have believed it...
    Which bit do you find hard to believe?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    who gives a fuck
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    almost all universities union have in their constitution that membership is open to all

    if a religious society at my uni done that, theyll be suspended also
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    who gives a fuck

    As ever an intelligent and perceptive insight Blagsta, your intellect is even starting to rival that of Born Slippy...

    I’m guessing the principle of this is that all groups and societies should be totally inclusive to everybody. Uh nice idea…I’m guessing that means neo-Nazis are allowed to join the Jewish Society? Gay-bashers to the LGBT society? Fascists to the Communist society?

    Since only a miniscule number of non-Christians – if any would want to join the Christian Union this whole action is a waste of time for all concerned. And as a matter of principle it’s inconsistent since the same approach is quite patently not being applied to other groups. And outside of universities groups and societies can choose whether to admit somebody as a member or not. For instance political parties reserve the right to reject somebody’s application for membership.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ’m guessing that means neo-Nazis are allowed to join the Jewish Society? Gay-bashers to the LGBT society? Fascists to the Communist society?

    Hmmmm...insightful...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hmmmm...insightful...

    Not particularly. Although more so than any of the drivel spouted in your thousands of tedious posts.

    Do you think it’s a coincidence that numerous people here can’t stand you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lol! :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yawn.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Keep 'em coming!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    individual students unions groups, (be they skydiving or christianity) being a union, have to allow anyone who is a student to join.

    under no circumstances are they allowed to dissallow membership to a fellow member of the union. rules is rules it seems, nothing new there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A non-Christian not being able to join is not as serious an issue as a gay Christian not being allowed to join.

    I don't know if that was the case. But if it was, then the Christian Union can go right fuck itself, and the suspension is 100% justified.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But there's nothing about them excluding gays - they refused to add a preamble to there constitution so that it explicitly mentioned them. There's no mention that they refused them.

    If there's more to this story than meets the eye I'd be glad to hear it, but my experience of Student Unions from when I was a student was that they saw themsevles as the vangaurd of the revolution rather than as protecting and assisting students of all creeds and political persuasions (well right up until they left and got themselves a well paid job in the media and politics)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seeing as it's unlikely that a non-Christian would want to join the union, isn't this all about as pointless as Stan/Loretta in Life of Brian fighting for his right to have babies?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    A non-Christian not being able to join is not as serious an issue as a gay Christian not being allowed to join.

    I don't know if that was the case. But if it was, then the Christian Union can go right fuck itself, and the suspension is 100% justified.
    your rabid anti religious bias is showing ...seeing as what you have contributed to the post is utter fantasy!
    a fantasy of your own imaginings!
    witch hunt kinda fantasies i'd say.


    if joined a beard aprreiction club and it clearly stated ...no clean shaved allowed ...i'd be happy with that.

    why the hell can't self interest ...self help ...fellow feeling ...groups of people demand that they be allowed to meet toghether on their own terms?

    some of you freddom fighters scare the fuck out of my freedom.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely Christians are meant to be tolerant and what not to everyone. Just my 2p but that's what was drilled into me at primary school. I mean, yer woman Bonham Carter went to Testicular Cancer meetings in Fight Club so why shouldn't non Christians be allowed to see what goes on in a "Christian club" meeting? Does no harm.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely Christians are meant to be tolerant and what not to everyone. Just my 2p but that's what was drilled into me at primary school. I mean, yer woman Bonham Carter went to Testicular Cancer meetings in Fight Club so why shouldn't non Christians be allowed to see what goes on in a "Christian club" meeting? Does no harm.

    They can - they just can't be members and vote. otherwise they'd risk getting loads of militant atheists joining up and passing a motion saying God does not exist, which a) defeats the motive of having a Christian Union and b) would be rather amusing now I think about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely Christians are meant to be tolerant and what not to everyone. Just my 2p but that's what was drilled into me at primary school. I mean, yer woman Bonham Carter went to Testicular Cancer meetings in Fight Club so why shouldn't non Christians be allowed to see what goes on in a "Christian club" meeting? Does no harm.
    if xtrians muslims hindus gays communists or whatever ...want to spen time in and with their own kind ...why the hell should a rule or law be made saying that they aren't allowed to do this and why?

    as for outsiders ...surely they can wait for an invitation ...or are manners also illegal now?
    it wouldn't surprise me if ...in these modern versions of freedom ...there are fucking laws limiting politeness understanding ...and even tolerance ....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea but the whole point of Christianity is to love your brother etc and be tolerant blah blah blah. Which is why I think they should let people into meetings to see what goes on. It would be extremely hypocritical of them to say, "oh yes we love all God's children..but you're Muslim, so you're not welcome in here"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yea but the whole point of Christianity is to love your brother etc and be tolerant blah blah blah. Which is why I think they should let people into meetings to see what goes on. It would be extremely hypocritical of them to say, "oh yes we love all God's children..but you're Muslim, so you're not welcome in here"
    your missing tthe ponit.
    if xtrians want to get together to discu=ss their faith ...their way of life ...how to be tolerant of others ...who the fuck are we to dsay they can't?
    if i decide to have a cannabis smokers only party ...i aint inviting the police ok.
    people wish to meet discuss share ...learn and teach other ...how they live beyond their privacy should then be your business ...and not before.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely Christians are meant to be tolerant and what not to everyone. Just my 2p but that's what was drilled into me at primary school. I mean, yer woman Bonham Carter went to Testicular Cancer meetings in Fight Club so why shouldn't non Christians be allowed to see what goes on in a "Christian club" meeting? Does no harm.
    I imagine that if a non-Christian wanted to learn more about Christianity and their beliefs and take part in discussions then they wouldn't have a problem with it (it's not like you need a certificate of authenticity or anything, anyway). What they probably have a problem with is people going to Christian groups just to pick at the religion and argue with them from a non-Christian (most likely atheist) perspective. I think that the majority of non-Christians who go onto Christian websites, do so just to provoke a reaction rather than have serious discussions about the religion, and are no better than the Liverpool fans who go onto the Everton website just to say "Everton R Sh!t". Whilst I don't think it's right to have a 'no non-Christian' policy, it was probably adopted purely to stop this sort of idiot coming purely to challenge everything they stand for.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    or is it a case of ...my idea of freedom means i can do anything i want and go anywhere i want when i want ...?

    i can invade your meetings and your privacy?
    serious questions in this day and age of ...curtailing freedoms that are being welcomed with open arms by many.

    the way a lot of modern people are being screwed over ...how long before a private converstaion between two people is illegal without wittness or a digital recording of the event?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Having said all that, it's probably the policy of the student union not to fund societies that exclude people on the basis of religion, race or gender, which is fair enough. I don't see why they're not allowed to throw people out who are deliberately attempting to cause confrontation though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you have a problem with a party or club, then don't join. Simple as. They should have rules in place that lead to dismisal if anyone starts causing shit. Most people who are non Christians wouldn't have a problem with this exclusion principle anyway so personally I don't see what the problem is. If there were a club for people for pink hair and I wasn't allowed to join I wouldn't be pissed or anything, I'd join a club for brunettes. Some people are just too sensitive, they probably never got to be "it" when they played duck duck goose at school or something.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    exclude people on the basis of religion, race or gender, which is fair enough. .
    i think that is an utter pile of bollox!
    it's not a fair at all!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't really see that it's a problem if the Guild of Students has an inclusive policy and requires this to be be built into the groups of societies. I assume therefore that they will require the following religious student societies, listed on their website as members of the Birmingham GoS, to adopt constitutions that "explicitly mention people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered" and allow full membership and voting rights to all:

    Adventist Christian Society
    Alpha
    Angsoc - Anglican Society
    Buddhist
    Cathsoc -The University of Birmingham Newman Catholic Society
    Christian Student Action
    Evangelical Christian Union
    Fusion
    Hindu
    Islamic
    Jewish
    MethSoc - Methodist Student Christian Society
    Navigators
    nVision
    Pagan

    Personally I don't think the Buddhists will have a problem with that but there's a couple of groups there I think might have a few problems accepting this. But oh well, fair's fair!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think that is an utter pile of bollox!
    it's not a fair at all!


    :yes:

    For once I agree with dissillusioned.

    I know a lot of good, honesat decent Christains and this move is utterly disgraceful IMO.

    If a Christain group wants to discuss their affairs in an all-Christain atmosphere then let them....and this comes from a agnostic who doesn't agree with any Christain/Muslim/Judaist etc etc based religions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    But there's nothing about them excluding gays - they refused to add a preamble to there constitution so that it explicitly mentioned them. There's no mention that they refused them.
    exactly. If they were to refuse to addmit gays then there would be a problem.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    but my experience of Student Unions from when I was a student was that they saw themsevles as the vangaurd of the revolution rather than as protecting and assisting students of all creeds and political persuasions

    When were you at university? 1969? It certainly wasn't my experience in the early 90's. SU's were all about ents then (apart from the minority SWSS wankers)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seeing as it's unlikely that a non-Christian would want to join the union, isn't this all about as pointless as Stan/Loretta in Life of Brian fighting for his right to have babies?

    Well exactly, hence my "who gives a..." comment.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anyway the only decent thing that Birmingham Uni Guild ever has was PNW (punk and new wave society) which ended up becoming legendary techno night House of God. :D
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