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what is your viewpoint of feminism?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    how much of that is due to inherent differences and how much due to socialised differences?

    Socialisation imo has an effect when it acts upon something already inherent...when socialisation tries to shape behaviour against instinct it clearly fails - for example, application of religious morality.

    Men/women have been shaped differently by evolution for different purposes, and it's logical that the evolutionary difference is psychological as well as physical.

    I also remember at primary school, before significant socialisation could take place, we organised ourselves into groups and fought with each other, played 'soldiers' etc and had little to do with the girls who went off and did their own thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Socialisation takes place from the day you're born, it doesn't start at school.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Socialisation takes place from the day you're born, it doesn't start at school.

    Ok. So before i went to school, by what means was i socialised?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what is feminism to you?

    When I was about 15 me and my (female) friends used to say that feminism was getting a guy to go down on you before you give him a blowjob.

    To me feminism ought to be about choice. I remember telling the school careers advisor that I didn't want to be a career women and I just wanted a nine-til-five job so that I could come home to my man and kids early and never have to work late etc. She found this idea shocking and told me that I'd miss out on a lot of good jobs for doing this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    Ok. So before i went to school, by what means was i socialised?

    Parents for a start.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    men and women are hugely different machines ...as different as dogs and horses.
    women have different physical cycles and productions going on in them for starters.
    when women a carrying children ...it is almost impossible to work ...defend or conquer.
    so ...the man has to fulfill the roll of earner defender carer and conqerer.
    generation after generation after generation.
    the diffences between masculinity and femmininty have always been essential to our well being and even survival.
    in other words ...nowt whatsoever to do with socialwotsit ...but a biological reality.
    the socialisation is nothing more than preparing the youngsters to fulfill their needed rolls for our survival.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It doesn't mean much to me, really.

    As far as pay equality goes, I think the same basic salary in an identical job for the same company should be the same for each member of staff, regardless of sex.
    Any extra commission is bound to vary between individuals, as will negotiated salaries.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is not a full list, just the ones i can remember the titles of from 3 years ago that i had to read.

    Feminist Politics and activism
    Feminism and Ancient philosophy
    Feminism and Censorship
    Feminism and Christianity
    Feminism and Equality (This is a very good one that sticks true to the original feminist movements i thought)

    Some of these are accurate and very good and explain both the true ideal of feminism and how it has changed. Others were just ramblings i thought, but never the less it stuck in my mind for some reason.

    In a television interview for the BBC 2 yeas ago Germaine Greer said,

    "Feminism is feminism and it can't change because it is a theory and ideology that always stays true. The world is what changes and how feminists choose to apply feminism is the key to how it is seen."

    I hope that clears up how i came to my opinions on feminism Scarlette although the reason i said you looked silly was because the first thing you did when i wrote something you didnt like was get insulting, not try to convince me to change my opinion based on examples of why i was wrong in your opinion. Alli was doing was saying what i had come to believe based on what i have read.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Parents for a start.

    What about them?

    men and women are hugely different machines ...as different as dogs and horses.
    women have different physical cycles and productions going on in them for starters.
    when women a carrying children ...it is almost impossible to work ...defend or conquer.
    so ...the man has to fulfill the roll of earner defender carer and conqerer.
    generation after generation after generation.
    the diffences between masculinity and femmininty have always been essential to our well being and even survival.
    in other words ...nowt whatsoever to do with socialwotsit ...but a biological reality.
    the socialisation is nothing more than preparing the youngsters to fulfill their needed rolls for our survival.

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in my house we are what many of you will consider old fashioned.
    i am the head of the household.
    i make the final decisions and take the responsibility for them.
    to us ...this is not only the way it should be but the only way ...our lives can be sucsessful.
    whatever money comes into the house ...goes straight to my wife ...she is the economist in the house.
    we discuss who needs/wants what ...there is rarely any need to discuss who's need/want should have priority ...it is usualy obvious.
    there cannot be two captains on a ship.
    there cannot be two heads in one hosehold ...without much shouting demanding disagreeing.
    if something cannot be decided/agreed upon then ...i have to make the final decision.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes m r, that's your household. Don't make the mistake of assuming that what you do is "natural" in any way. My household is different.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    What about them?

    I was answering your previous question...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Bit of both, but there are significant inherent differences between males and females.
    Biologically there are. The woman's strength lies in the hips and legs because she is the one to carry the child, the man's strength is in the arms.

    However we are socialised in to gender roles, from the toys we play with when we're a kid to school and television and what we perceieve as attractive traits in a man or woman's personality.

    Personally I think it's sad, not just for women, but for men that we're socialised in to "masculine" or "feminine" traits. There's nothing wrong with a house husband or a man who cries and nrses kittens back to health and loves flowers... There's nothing wrong with a woman who works on a building site, or who drinks pints and plays rugby and smokes cigars.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I was answering your previous question...

    Yes, but how do parents socialise children from ages 1-4?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote:
    To me feminism ought to be about choice. I remember telling the school careers advisor that I didn't want to be a career women and I just wanted a nine-til-five job so that I could come home to my man and kids early and never have to work late etc. She found this idea shocking and told me that I'd miss out on a lot of good jobs for doing this.
    One issue I have with some feminists is when they scorn women for wanting this... A woman should have this right as much as a man should.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes m r, that's your household. Don't make the mistake of assuming that what you do is "natural" in any way. My household is different.
    a have a good friend who is very indecisive.
    his wife is very strong ...she is the head of the household in their home ...none of this fucking democracy bollox.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    a have a good friend who is very indecisive.
    his wife is very strong ...she is the head of the household in their home ...none of this fucking democracy bollox.

    Our household is more of a partnership.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    . Don't make the mistake of assuming that what you do is "natural" in any way. .
    over thousands of years it has been that way ...of necessity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Our household is more of a partnership.
    and thats how we see our daily lives togrether.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Spliffie wrote:
    Yes, but how do parents socialise children from ages 1-4?
    However we are socialised in to gender roles, from the toys we play with when we're a kid to school ...

    Mostly that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally I think it's sad, not just for women, but for men that we're socialised in to "masculine" or "feminine" traits. There's nothing wrong with a house husband or a man who cries and nrses kittens back to health and loves flowers... There's nothing wrong with a woman who works on a building site, or who drinks pints and plays rugby and smokes cigars.

    It is, really.

    I don't go for crying, nursing kittens and flowers, but there's bugger all wrong with men that do do that.

    It's also quite refereshing having a pint with a woman who doesn't feel she has to faff about with halves because it's "ladylike". I rarely drink halves because it disappears too quickly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    However we are socialised in to gender roles, from the toys we play with when we're a kid to school and television and what we perceieve as attractive traits in a man or woman's personality.

    Personally I think it's sad, not just for women, but for men that we're socialised in to "masculine" or "feminine" traits. There's nothing wrong with a house husband or a man who cries and nrses kittens back to health and loves flowers... There's nothing wrong with a woman who works on a building site, or who drinks pints and plays rugby and smokes cigars.

    I wasn't given gender-specific toys to play with, my parents never tried to define gender roles to me...i opted for guns over dolls without a second thought...the same goes for friends of mine with older sisters - the choice of what toys to play with was free, and it was always guns and soldiers over dolls and ponies. Even the people whose parents were against guns, soldiers etc always played them at other people's houses. That's pure evolutionary instinct.

    Women also produce more oxycotin than men, and around 70% less testosterone than men. This is undenianble and accounts for much of the psychological difference.

    Also, if attraction/sexuality is a result of socialisation, then homosexuality wouldn't have existed.

    There's a wealth of information about gender difference from a psychological point of view, and the majority of the up-to-date stuff accepts inherent difference. Have a look.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Our household is more of a partnership.
    let me change my mind a little here from my earlier answer to your post.
    we see ourselves as more of a team.
    more of a partnership when your just a couple ...for us though ...more of a team when it came to an ever growing family with all ts complexities.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Socialisation takes place from the day you're born, it doesn't start at school.

    Bullshit...children don't understand the concept...they react to "natural" urges...you constantly avoid the issue of "naturalism" you're afraid of it...admit it? You think we're all social beings! :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote:
    what is feminism to you?

    When I was about 15 me and my (female) friends used to say that feminism was getting a guy to go down on you before you give him a blowjob.

    To me feminism ought to be about choice. I remember telling the school careers advisor that I didn't want to be a career women and I just wanted a nine-til-five job so that I could come home to my man and kids early and never have to work late etc. She found this idea shocking and told me that I'd miss out on a lot of good jobs for doing this.

    :confused:

    Are you on drugs?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Bullshit...children don't understand the concept...they react to "natural" urges...you constantly avoid the issue of "naturalism" you're afraid of it...admit it? You think we're all social beings! :rolleyes:

    I'm not denying the role of biology, but children are influenced and socialised from the day they are born. Read some child development research. I'll reccommend you some studies later when my g/f gets in - she's doing a PhD in it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    over thousands of years it has been that way ...of necessity.

    Absolute rubbish. Check yer history.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    I wasn't given gender-specific toys to play with, my parents never tried to define gender roles to me...i opted for guns over dolls without a second thought...the same goes for friends of mine with older sisters - the choice of what toys to play with was free, and it was always guns and soldiers over dolls and ponies. Even the people whose parents were against guns, soldiers etc always played them at other people's houses. That's pure evolutionary instinct.

    Women also produce more oxycotin than men, and around 70% less testosterone than men. This is undenianble and accounts for much of the psychological difference.

    Also, if attraction/sexuality is a result of socialisation, then homosexuality wouldn't have existed.

    There's a wealth of information about gender difference from a psychological point of view, and the majority of the up-to-date stuff accepts inherent difference. Have a look.
    Or maybe you could post a source?

    Did you study psychology?
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