Self harm and teaching...

Former Member · January 2006

kaffrin wrote:

do as i say, not as i do. a fine basis for learning.

how would you offer personal advice to someone struggling to get out of their hole if you are still in the hole yourself? if i was the person being helped, you know i would be thinking, 'so if it's so easy and good and 'worth it', how come you haven't done it?

:yes:

Precisely.

Former Member · January 2006

kaffrin wrote:

how would you offer personal advice to someone struggling to get out of their hole if you are still in the hole yourself?

How couldn't you? All you'd be doing is re-iterating the advice you've been trained to give. Being depressed/cutting yourself obviously doesn't automatically preclude you from being able do that.

if i was the person being helped, you know i would be thinking, 'so if it's so easy and good and 'worth it', how come you haven't done it?

You'd only be thinking that if the person left marks uncovered - something which i seriously doubt any teacher is going to do.

If i was to become a teacher (something i briefly thought about but decided against), being a habitual drug user wouldn't prevent me from teaching children the ins and outs of drug use just as well as someone who didn't. In fact, the advice given would be backed up by personal experience and understanding - something which is largely missing from drugs education in schools.

I wouldn't be lying in the staff room smacked off my tits, i wouldn't snorting coke in front the pupils. To them, I'd be just another teacher giving advice i'd been trained to give - backed up with personal, private understanding.

I know people who cut themselves, work stressful jobs and study stressful courses and manage fine. If you didn't know them on a personal level or see the marks, you wouldn't even suspect it.

Former Member · January 2006

Spliffie wrote:

How couldn't you? All you'd be doing is re-iterating the advice you've been trained to give. Being depressed/cutting yourself obviously doesn't automatically preclude you from being able do that.

perhaps you missed the word 'personal'?

sadly teaching is a wee bit more complex than simply reading off a script. no, being depressed and actively self-harming doesn't automatically make you shit at rehashing information. but it's not like kids come with a manual, and to deal with a selfharmer you just need to refer to the flowchart on page 9. and you also forget that kids learn by example, so obviously someone who is emotionally healthy is a better role model.

You'd only be thinking that if the person left marks uncovered - something which i seriously doubt any teacher is going to do.

i think you are underestimating how perceptive kids are. you might think that they can't tell what kind of mental state someone has, but i'd disagree there. i remember being at school and knowing exactly which teachers we could break, and which would cry and leave if we pushed them hard enough.

I know people who cut themselves, work stressful jobs and study stressful courses and manage fine. If you didn't know them on a personal level or see the marks, you wouldn't even suspect it.

call me crazy, but if they're cutting themselves, i don't think that counts as 'managing fine'.

Former Member · January 2006

kaffrin wrote:

sadly teaching is a wee bit more complex than simply reading off a script. no, being depressed and actively self-harming doesn't automatically make you shit at rehashing information. but it's not like kids come with a manual, and to deal with a selfharmer you just need to refer to the flowchart on page 9. and you also forget that kids learn by example, so obviously someone who is emotionally healthy is a better role model.

Please explain me to me how someone who's happy clappy is an instrinsically better role model than someone's who depressed? As I said, you wouldn't even suspect quite a few of the people i know who cut themselves of doing so without actually knowing them on an intimate personal level.

Do you teach? Because if you do, then i'm sure you'll know the importance of maintaining the divide between teacher/pupil. Being a "role model" to pupils is therefore merely superficial.

I don't know the specifics of the English system of education, but certainly up here in Jockland it's a minority of voluntarily selected teachers who deal with personal issues. Most teachers just teach their own subjects and have no other involvement.

i think you are underestimating how perceptive kids are. you might think that they can't tell what kind of mental state someone has, but i'd disagree there. i remember being at school and knowing exactly which teachers we could break, and which would cry and leave if we pushed them hard enough.

I've already said this. That's why it think such a person becoming a teacher is inadvisable. Maybe you missed that bit?

call me crazy, but if they're cutting themselves, i don't think that counts as 'managing fine'.

I was talking about managing fine under pressure from work/study, not privately. Obviously.

Former Member · January 2006

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

I dunno... Would an alcoholic be qualified to work with other alcoholics?

Well...speaking as someone with cannabis dependency i'd be more than capable of helping drug addicts and it's something i might even look at doing when i'm older.

On the road to recovery you learn skills to help yourself get better... If you cut then you do not have these skills.

This is a non-argument. Just because the "skills" you've learned to try and help yourself haven't worked, doesn't mean you can't teach those skills to others. After all, someone who doesn't cut themself only understands those skills in pure theoretical terms. Someone's who's learned the theory and has experience of putting them into practice (however unsuccessfully) is no less qualified to give advice than someone who's only learned the theory and has no experience of the practice.

Former Member · January 2006

Spliffie wrote:

Well...speaking as someone with cannabis dependency i'd be more than capable of helping drug addicts and it's something i might even look at doing when i'm older.

Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical if you're still using?

This is a non-argument. Just because the "skills" you've learned to try and help yourself haven't worked, doesn't mean you can't teach those skills to others. After all, someone who doesn't cut themself only understands those skills in pure theoretical terms.

Skills are skills... If these skills didn't work they wouldn't use them in the mental health services.

May I ask if you've been there yourself?

Whilst I was cutting I didn't know the skills (and there are techniques to avoid cutting that they teach you in DBT -dialectical behavioural therapy- that help people) and found it hard to help myself, but eventually with help being in a unit I managed to stop. It's the same as when somebody's depressed, you can't effectively help somebody else with depression because your mind works differently, your perception of life is distorted.

Former Member · January 2006

Lolzabeth wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

I've been self-harming for 5 years and have thought about getting help several times. The problem is, I keep convincing myself there's nothing wrong.

May I ask if you know why you are doing it?

Convicing yourself there is nothing wrong with it is tha basic of all addiction.

You know there is something wrong and you know dealing with it is going to
be really hard and not trying is a way for you to escape or try to avoid failure, because you know failure would only make you feel worste that you do already....

Ok, here it might not be the case here, just stating by personal experience.

I have been self-harming myself for years and even did much worste in my time but I manage to stop completly.

I won't lie to you, it has been hard work and took me years to finally stop
completly. It's not a walk in the park, it's hard, and frankly getting help never
did anything for me, all they did is give me some pills, which I took once and felt like I was half asleep all day. But here getting help depends on some people, if you feel you need it and it is useful get it, if not do it yourself, cos you can! Also I would say if the only thing they offer is pills, don't take them, pills don't fix problems, they hide them, but when you stop the pills, the problems come back as they have never left. The only one that can cure you is yourself.

I don't know your reasons and all about your situation or anything, just wanted to share my personal experience with you and let you know that if I did manage to stop it, you can do it too and you will get stronger by it.

If you ever feel like talking about it to someone that have been there and that is more likely to understand, just contact me, I'll be glad to to try to help you or even just listen to what you have to say.

Former Member · January 2006

nihilisticmadman wrote:

May I ask if you know why you are doing it?

Convicing yourself there is nothing wrong with it is tha basic of all addiction.

You know there is something wrong and you know dealing with it is going to
be really hard and not trying is a way for you to escape or try to avoid failure, because you know failure would only make you feel worste that you do already....

Ok, here it might not be the case here, just stating by personal experience.

I have been self-harming myself for years and even did much worste in my time but I manage to stop completly.

I won't lie to you, it has been hard work and took me years to finally stop
completly. It's not a walk in the park, it's hard, and frankly getting help never
did anything for me, all they did is give me some pills, which I took once and felt like I was half asleep all day. But here getting help depends on some people, if you feel you need it and it is useful get it, if not do it yourself, cos you can! Also I would say if the only thing they offer is pills, don't take them, pills don't fix problems, they hide them, but when you stop the pills, the problems come back as they have never left. The only one that can cure you is yourself.

I don't know your reasons and all about your situation or anything, just wanted to share my personal experience with you and let you know that if I did manage to stop it, you can do it too and you will get stronger by it.

If you ever feel like talking about it to someone that have been there and that is more likely to understand, just contact me, I'll be glad to to try to help you or even just listen to what you have to say.

TBH, I don't want to go to a councillor/therapist/shrink/whatever. I done half a psychology degree and left because it was a load of bull. Everything was by the textbook and I know that's not how it works.
I would never go on meds, if they gave me them I'd chuck them. I've never taken them but Ive heard stories and know how they work (the course I'm doing at uni now has a module on drugs and human interactions) I don't want to wander around in a dream world and get hooked on something that ultimately, imo, will just make things worse.

This is all just totally my opinion and I'm not, in any way, getting at people who are on meds. I know they do help some people but I think you have to believe they will and I don't.
It's the same with councelling, if you believe it will work then it most likely will. I don't think it will help me at all.

I have to be honest and admit I don't really want to stop or get help. I say I do but its more seeing it from other peoples point of view rather than what I want. If I do go to the councillor at the uni it will be to get people off my back. Very doubtful it'll do any good though.

I stopped drinking, drugs and smoking on my own with support from my friends and, imo, this isn't any different. I can do it by myself when I want to so I agree with you there. I've tried many times for other people. Everytime I've failed and, yea, it does make you feel bad because you kind of think "what's the point?".

I don't know what I'm going to do about the teaching. I'm thinking that if I don't feel like I can do it this year then I can always defer entry and see if the situation's improved next year.

It'll work out fine.

Thanks for the reply and the support

I appreciate it.

Former Member · January 2006

I believe you can teach without any troubles.

Self harming never stop me for having a job or having a normal social life.

Good luck, I hope you'll soon tell us you are teaching :thumb:

Kimono · January 2006

For some practical advice about whether your background of self-harming would affect/be necessary to bring up in your teaching application, you might want to contact Connexions Direct (by email, text or and online advisor). Alternatively, you can get expert advice from TheSite.org's sister site, AskTheSite .

Kx

Former Member · January 2006

Lolzabeth wrote:

I have to be honest and admit I don't really want to stop or get help. I say I do but its more seeing it from other peoples point of view rather than what I want. If I do go to the councillor at the uni it will be to get people off my back. Very doubtful it'll do any good though.

i know how you feel there (i think) Im a bit like that about my ED at times. Sometimes I want to stop, other times its like a little friend to comfort me. If noone gave a shit though id just do it forever. I try and stop cos I know its wrong, but i dont really FEEL it.

When I applied for my nursing course I didnt tell them about my ED, even though it was a specific question on the application form (another friend had one in the past too and she didnt mention it on the form either) I think youre the only one who`ll know whether you can handle the course, and if you cant, that might have nothing to do with your S.H. It might even help you get over it??? I dont believe it should be a barrier to you doing the course. Just apply, dont tell them, and see how you get on.

Former Member · January 2006

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical if you're still using?

Not at all - it isn't a moral issue.

May I ask if you've been there yourself?

Nope, it's not something i've ever done.

Whilst I was cutting I didn't know the skills (and there are techniques to avoid cutting that they teach you in DBT -dialectical behavioural therapy- that help people) and found it hard to help myself, but eventually with help being in a unit I managed to stop. It's the same as when somebody's depressed, you can't effectively help somebody else with depression because your mind works differently, your perception of life is distorted.

Fair enough - but do the skills actually address the reasons for cutting? As opposed to merely the cutting itself?

Studies have shown a correlation between depression and improved perception. People deal with depression in different ways, not everyone who's depressed can't function well in other aspects of life...it varies greatly for person to person...a lot of people deal with it privately and lead otherwise normal lives with people unaware that they're depressed.

Self harm and teaching...

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